Kenji Yano explains how he interprets MGSV’s story in Famitsu interview

In December of last year Japanese gaming outlet Famitsu published an interview with Kenji Yano in which he discussed his interpretation of the story of Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain. Kenji Yano is a Japanese editor and friend of Kojima’s (recently he was Kojima’s special guest during the first episode of Hideo Tube). Below are some of Yano’s comments on the story and his interpretation. To read the full interview go to Famitsu’s website.

“Was METAL GEAR SOLID V: THE PHANTOM PAIN (below, MGSV) released in an unfinished state?” That’s the question that’s been making the rounds on the internet since the game’s release. Elements such as Venom Snake’s true identity, the disappearance of “Episode 51,” and the nuclear disarmament objective in FOB online missions, have left some fans wondering what to make of it. We talked to the person most suited to answering these concerns, MGS series expert Kenji Yano.

*This interview has been extensively added to and revised since its original publication in the Dec. 24, 2015 edition of Weekly Famitsu (sold on Dec. 10, 2015).

Kenji-Yano-Famitsu-Interview

Kenji Yano

Kadokawa staff member. Responsible for METAL GEAR SOLID naked, the standalone book that dissects the MGS series in minute detail, plus the planning and editing of the MGS novelizations by authors Project Itoh, Satoshi Hase, and Hitori Nojima. Appeared multiple times on the web show Kojima Station to offer sharp insights into the meaning behind the series.

A 19th-century novelist and a 21st-century game designer

MGSV-Prologue-Flaming-Whale

Yano says that Kojima explained the structure of MGSV to him as early as 2011, and all the different elements were already in place: from the themes (such as phantom pain and retaliation) to the motif of Moby Dick. “However, at that point Ishmael was actually Huey. Snake was Ahab, and Diamond Dogs’ enemy was America. It was set up so that the story, being told by Huey (Ishmael) as an American citizen, would be biased toward the American perspective, showing America as being right the whole time.”

According to Yano, the Moby Dick connection is also meant as an allegory for the powers that drive the world, as whales used to be more than just a source of food. “Of course their oil was prized, but also other parts such as the bones and baleen played an important role in people’s lifestyles. […] World maps are thought to have come about thanks to the whaling trade. In short, whaling was inseparable from people’s lives at the time. You could even say it had “infiltrated” their lives.” With MGSV, Kojima brought this theme to a new century: “What’s important is that Kojima-san didn’t just transplant the motif from Moby-Dick. I think it’s more a case of these two creators, Melville and Kojima, relentlessly thinking through the way that the world works, and arriving at the same answer.” This connects to the setting of the game: “if we look at the game from the energy perspective, it’s obvious that Afghanistan and Africa would be the settings for the events in MGSV. Each produces oil, and each is a source of rare metals and other mined resources.”

Of course, both Moby Dick and MGSV share the theme of revenge. “As Skull Face stated in MGSV, the world is an endless loop of action and reaction. It’s always an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. […] Like Moby-Dick, MGSV is also a tale of revenge.”

Why was Ishmael changed from Huey to Big Boss? Yano believes the answer to that lies in what Ahab represents: “Although Ahab has only his personal revenge, when the character is superimposed onto American righteousness, he serves as an analogy for how justification for revenge based on instinctive national memory is converted into a just cause.”

He continues: “But in MGSV, it’s actually America that’s the overarching Moby Dick. Big Boss is Ahab in the sense that he’s been maimed by America in the past. Big Boss turns his yearning for revenge into bonds that bind him together with comrades who share his wish to retaliate against America (or its self-righteous justifications). However, from America’s point of view it’s Big Boss that’s Moby Dick. So what we can see in MGSV is actually an attempt to depict battle between Ahab and Ahab, or perhaps Moby Dick and Moby Dick.” This, according to Yano, explains why Kojima chose to switch the role of Ahab from Huey to Big Boss. “To be more precise, the aim is to reveal that the system the world runs on defines Big Boss’s existence as “evil.” That’s why MGSV tells you distinctly that Ahab is you, the player. It says, now you have to experience first-hand the absurdity of being branded a villain by the manipulating ways of the global status quo. […] For that message to be put across, it can’t be Huey telling it, since he’s on the American side. It has to be Big Boss himself that delivers the message.”

What is the true aim behind the online FOB mode?

Metal-Gear-Solid-V-Nuclear-Weapon

The interview then shifts focus to the FOB mode, and in particular to the option of having nuclear weapons. “First off, let’s think about this from a time perspective. MGSV is set in 1984, when the Cold War structure was coming apart at the seams due to factors such as Reagan’s Star Wars program, and the Soviet Union beginning to show signs of collapse. But we’ve lived through the history that followed this period, and so we know that fighting in the name of righteousness and fighting in the name of revenge are really two sides of the same coin. […] I think Kojima-san wanted players to experience MGSV as Big Boss in order to see how the real world works – that retribution and this cycle of revenge are the basis for all war and conflict. What the player experiences after the end of Chapter 2 is the sort of peace that can’t yet be achieved in the real world. I think that’s the point of the online FOB mode.”

Of course, whether we will ever see a world free from nukes is up to all the players worldwide. “In the real world, conflict created by race, religion, or ideological difference will probably never go away, but I think people can still come together to get rid of nukes. At the very least, we can now do this in a game. Even in a fictional world, whatever that world makes you feel is “real” to you. Thinking about these sorts of things is surely the essence of the online FOB mode. And one valid response is to feel that nuclear abolition is impossible.”

Is MGSV unfinished?

MGSV-Mission-46-Ending-Big-Boss

Lastly, the interview talked about the idea of MGSV being ‘unfinished’, as many are claiming. Yano had this to say about it: “I think there were two stages to this. First, you had a certain number of players who finished Chapter 2 not long after the game came out and went, “What? This Snake wasn’t the real Big Boss!?” It’s similar to the way people reacted to MGS2 (laughs). Some players couldn’t accept that there was a new main character, Raiden, and they got really angry. But now MGS2 is considered a masterpiece. MGSV is a much longer game than MGS2, so it’s like its length amplified that feeling.” He also feels that the absence of Kingdom of the Flies (Mission 51) is not a direct cause of this. “Up until Episode 46, The Man Who Sold the World, players experience the story as Snake, but then they suddenly have the rug pulled out from under them. They find out that they themselves were Big Boss. Then it becomes their story. They themselves participated in the massacre on Mother Base, Quiet’s disappearance, Huey’s exile. I think The Kingdom of the Flies became an outlet for venting all the unease and confusion that followed that revelation. But really, this fits right into what Kojima-san wanted.”

The sensation of ‘phantom pain’, so to speak, ties into the Moby Dick references as well. “This is a slight digression, but this feeling of MGSV not being over, this feeling of things being unresolved, these are also present with Moby-Dick.”

Yano concludes: “We can be Big Boss now. We can all hold our heads high and work to save the world – our real world. So let’s do that. Why not, right? I think this is the “empty space” Kojima-san has given us through MGSV.”

To read the full interview, which is certainly worth a read, follow the link to Famitsu’s website in the source section below.

Source: Famitsu

  • BurntFM

    I call BS on that explanation. As much as I love TPP it was a hot mess and we all know it. It’s easy to retroactively say. “It was stylistically designed to be that way.”
    when they know there was unfinished content with a little hit of resolve.

    • This interpretation seems a lot more convincing (and actually far less easy) than just saying ‘it was a mess’.

    • It’s not a mess.
      A mess is smth that is not working to begin with. MGSV:TPP is the most polished AAA title of 2015 and a masterpiece.

      • DonquixoteDoflamingo

        Don’t let V hater.s hear that because them not liking the story = to V being complete shit.

    • DonquixoteDoflamingo

      Ok so what’s unfinished about the game? No really i am getting extremely fed up with bunch of generic people with absolutely no knowledge on the matter claiming the game is unfinished because it wasn’t what you were expecting.

      It’s been over 6 months since the game came out and it’s high time hater’s/ unfinished bandwadgon people started coming up with decent arguments for why they think the game is unfinished.

      I am really really tired of having crappy fan-theories shoved down my throat like they were some kind of facts.

      • Gatsu

        People still rage about ME3 after like 4 years, it takes time for some fans to lower the anger. There’s been some good arguments during these months imo.

        • DonquixoteDoflamingo

          I honestly haven’t found good arguments. Most if not all of them rely on the cut-content and “Konami evil.” to support the arguments.
          It’s really really hard to take them seriously when none of them are adding anything to the discussion. You can go back to September and find pretty much everything that has been said and people just repeat that.

          • It’s true that a lot of people just seem to repeat what they have heard others say, and aren’t willing to go back and take a second look to try to see what the game is trying to do.

          • DonquixoteDoflamingo

            The lack of critical thinking from people, and constantly repeating what some big youtuber said ( AKA Bunnyhop) really just pisses me off.

            The complaint of the storytelling method, pacing, audiotapes, the jeep ride etc…….. People seem to complaint about it but then can;t even provide a decent reasoning for it.

          • Gatsu

            There was some chatting about it on forum side too. But yea, I can’t remember them all ;D.

        • Still, it’s a bit disappointing because somehow you would expect more from the Metal Gear community.

          • Gatsu

            I agree :).

          • Oh well, as you said it may still take some time. 🙂

      • JJBYACH

        The game was unfinished – that is a fact. Chapter 2 and it’s horrendous pacing, padding and contrivances is the smoking gun. But I’m in the odd minority that feel some of the most interesting parts of the game is what is the does wrong.

        As I’ve stated many time’s before:

        I think the genius of MGSV is that Kojima knew at some point the game wasn’t going to be exactly what he wanted for reasons we will probably never know, so instead of doing what most developers would do, he took what he had and tweaked it to empathise the core themes of the franchise and MGSV’s own narrative e.g. chapter 2 (or even the entire game for some) = incomplete, unfulfilling, disappointing and a general train wreck, I was even angry after completing chapter 2 due to how screwed up it was, I took to the Internet, scouring the webs for information about content that wasn’t there but should of been: my phantom pain. As the game emphasises (more specifically chapter 2) revenge leaves someone with lingering feelings of incompleteness, disappointment and even perpetual anger. Kojima’s greatest and arguably most infamous tool is conveying themes and narrative concepts transcendent through the game and into its marketing, hype and general community surrounding it: through game mechanics and real life social interaction and not just pre-writren words and scripted cutscenes, and he used it here, he sold the world a carefully constructed lie.
        The story is less about hand holding us through the time line, but recontextualising the time line with completely new information. It’s a story of empathy, not through the internal narrative but through a tangential meta one, in a completely different context.

        Side note: Honestly, I didn’t really give a crap about anything that happened in th actual plot, as all the interesting plot happened completely outside of the plot it is suppose to be contained in. Most of the good narrative beats (truth tapes), exist completely out of the games context, either occurring way before or way after the present and has zero reason to exist in the game world – seriously, who is holding the microphone in some of the tapes with Zero? Isn’t he suppose to be the most secretive and hidden person on the planet? Why does Venom randomly remember who he is? Why is Quiet’s story the most poorly written plot line in the entire game, filled with illogical and coincidental things happening with no explanation other than its necessity to forward the plot? Chapter 2 = Contrivances for the sake of contrivances – it either screams laziness or incompetence or strict times constraints or maybe it was intentional? The more unfinished the game is the more it fits into the themes of the game, or does it?

        The reason I’m personally so torn on the game is due to how he created a safety net around the game, as nearly all its flaws can be argued as intentional due to how it fits into the themes of the game and franchise.

        I personally think the game is unfinished but Kojima in all his insane genius built the rest of his game around this, showing he is not the master, he is not the king; but he is the utmost God of making it up as he goes along.

        • It depends on one’s definition of ‘unfinished’. If ‘unfinished’ means that things were cut, yeah. But that happens with every game, including previous Metal Gear titles. It if means story lines that are left open, yeah. But again, same thing can be said about MGS2, for example. If it means lack of polish (which ‘unfinished’ usually means in the context of game design) than MGSV can’t be called unfinished, especially when compared to other open world games of that scale.

          • JJBYACH

            “MGSV can’t be called unfinished, especially when compared to other open world games of that scale.”

            I always went by the impression that a lack of polish in any aspect of a game renders it somewhat unfinished regardless of scale, MGSV is no exception.

            A game that contains glitches wouldn’t be defined as unpolished until those glitches start to effect the artistic vision negatively either by breaking immersion or by breaking the mechanics. I believe the same can be applied to narrative.

            It’s not the cut content – in any project, game or otherwise, things get cut, things go wrong, Kojima tried his best to work around it; that is very commendable and a very difficult but smart thing to do – what truly suggests a lack of polish in its story is not something that can be fixed in a patch with the re-added content/missing content, it’s deep rotted, seemingly pervasive flaws present throughout my subjective interpretation of the script and execution of its ideas which suggests a lack of attention to me personally (Quiet’s story contrived due to lack of attention, the big twist seems contrived due to lack of attention: pathetic execution, nutjob Ocelot becomes a monotone walking encyclopedia rather than nutjob Ocelot we know and love, revenge theme internally conveyed poorly: meta wise – external to the narrative it’s really interesting though. That is just to name a few issues that seem to stand out in a game made by a guy who seems to pride himself as someone who is obsessed with small but important details). Yes, I know; a poorly written story doesn’t make it incomplete, but what makes a story incomplete to someone is when the ambition of it and the project; intentional or not causes concessions to be made in either the core concepts, narrative beats and/or character developments negatively effecting the creative in the latest installment of a long running franchise synonymous for having a great care and attention given to its story.

            I think there is something semantically wrong with saying “MGSV can’t be unfinished”, that statement has a resounding ring of objectivity surrounding it. There is no objectivity in the the subjectivity of human taste. Regardless of your own opinions on the story, there is definitive evidence that suggests by its own merits that the narrative is missing elements that would have strengthened it if perhaps they took more care and took more time writing and implementing said story, it would be more coherent – regardless if the missing elements were intentional due to the post modern subtext underpinning the game and the franchise – therefore MGSV’S story will be considered unpolished to atleast one person on the planet and as you stated yourself unpolished = unfinished.

            Maybe you find the story to be polished: the bigger the game the more glitches it has, the bigger (longer) the story the more incoherent and patchy the writing gets – at launch I found Fallout 4 to be a broken mess, but I found Skyrim to be surprisingly polished when I first played it. Like how different people will run into different glitches at different severities when playing the same game which can forever solidify their impression of the game, people will do the same with narrative. If an element (narrative) of a game can be defined by someone as unpolished no matter how polished the rest of the game elements are the game can be defined as “unpolished” – and therefore unfinished.

            MGSV is not objectively exempt
            of being classed as unfinished due to the immense scale and ambition, the opposite rings true. You might not think so but others may which makes the entire argument a possibly as it has clear evidence in favour of both parties.

            Sorry for the incoherent wall of rambling. At this point I feel like I’m rambling – it’s quite late, I’ll probably edit once I wake up. Hope my long winded point makes somewhat sense… When post modern subtext is thrown into any art piece critism becomes much more complex – is a game that may be intentionally incomplete to illicit certain emotions and make a point; incomplete?

          • Full Options

            “MGSV can’t be called unfinished, especially when compared to other open world games of that scale.”
            1000 % agreed.
            Hideo and his team achieved a More Than Meet the Eyes challenge, we will wait some substantial time to see an open world on par with TPP.

            “If ‘unfinished’ means that things were cut, yeah. But that happens with every game, including previous Metal Gear titles.”
            I am still preoccupied about if the choice of the things to cut were not forced by Konami this time, which would make a real difference. It is ok to cut things as far as it is the studio’s own decision and it is not suffering from heavy pressures that oblige it to remove even more essential parts.
            Anyways, who knows what really happened.

          • JJBYACH

            Dunno if you wrote what I typed yesterday but I wrote it pretty late and it made no sense whatsoever so I deleted it and here is what I was trying to say:

            True MGSV in terms of gameplay is polished to the point of near perfection for its tunnel vision focus, but the lack of attention given to certain plot points, character development and pacing of its narrative suggest that something went wrong; albeit intentional or not (due to post modern subtext, the game is alot harder to criticise), had a negative effect on my subjective interpretation of Kojima’s artistic vision. This suggests an overall lack of polish in certain story aspects, and since narrative is a core element of the game – if one element lacks polish the whole quality of the product goes down and therefore can be classed by some as unfinished: regardless of how well presented the other parts are. I guess maybe I should of specified how I felt the story was unfinished as opposed to the rest of the game, but to be honest I still believe adequate attention and care should be given to all aspects of a game in order for it to be classed as polished and complete.

          • DonquixoteDoflamingo

            Pacing has always been an issue in the series considering how the game previous games would start off slowly and then suddenly start throwing twist after twist without letting the players breath and process what happened.

            V’s completely changes that and slowly reveals the main plot while works more as a procedural mystery tv show allowing the players to take in the info while also concentrating on the gameplay.

            So i’ll ask what is so wrong with the execution of the story. Unless it’s the same tired argument of chapter 2 which is an epilogue and obviously meant to have that type of pacing showing what happens after revenge.

          • JJBYACH

            I disagree with the proposition that previous MGS games suffered from pacing issues as severe as you imply.
            The only MGS that had over blown twist after twist after a steady build up is MGS2. The repeated plot twists was intentional, the intention was to make both the players and Raiden question their own perceived reality of the games events – feeding into the games central themes: the game doesn’t define its reality for you, and like Raiden, it asks us players to question our perceived realities, which in turn is just fiction told over and over until it becomes reality, deciding for ourselves what it means and not let others decide that for us. MGS2 was meticulously designed to show this – every element of the was meticulously designed to show this. The “slow buildup” in all MGS game are for world building, setting up the reality you are entering – it happens in all fiction. World building can’t be classed as inherently bad pacing – you can have a very well paced story that progresses slowly – see films like Drive, Taxi Driver, Gravity. See books like Heart of Darkness, Gone Girl, 1984, Child of God and The Road. The narrative progresses very slowly but that is subsidised with world building and complex character development – MGSV is lacking in the latter in spades.

            Pacing, as it applies to fiction, could be described as how the creator manipulates time, not how many twists are in the story or how long it takes for stuff you deem as interesting occurs.

            So heading back to MGSV, the timing (pace) of the central narrative beats needed to drive the plot forward is very inconsistent – you do 3-6 missions related to Miller’s Cipher boner: he’s like “Boss, Cipher is involved in this, we need to take this wet job”, then a major plot progression, some interesting ideas about war morality, PMC’s, child soldiers are touched upon but never presented in a way the interestingly explores the subject matter. As I stated before slowly building to narrative beats is fine, but it needs to be interspersed with character development and world building – not just doing stuff vaguely relating to the narrative beat it is building up to.

            You ask what do I find wrong with the stories execution – half baked exploration of its own concepts:
            The game is a prequel – the bromance between Ocelot and BB was suppose to shown here, but instead Ocelot is reduced to nothing but a monotone walking encyclopedia.

            Things like Child Soldiers are shown, but the game doesn’t have anything to say about them other than they exist: Chico’s recruitment scene in Peace Walker was one of my favourite scenes in the entire franchise – it shown how BB’s charisma and silver tongue can manipulate and cajole even children to join his gang of mercenaries, and it showed the inner struggles of children forced into conflict, you see that exchange between BB and Chico didn’t advanced the story in anyway, but it established core character development and foreshadowing thematic concepts to appear later in th game and rest of th series.

            The episodic structure – pads the out the story unnecessarily. Try this yourself, count how many story missions advance the plot and provide meaningful character development.

            Venom Snake is a boring bastard. I know, I seriously get it: Venom is the player, the player is Venom, Venom becomes the players – it’s reverse MGS2; the protagonist accepts his perceived reality, which in actuality is fiction, conveyed through misconstrued and doctored information; words – reflecting BB’s indirect turn into a demon as he utilises the very same social engineering concepts to manipulate and control which the Patriots adopt with the AI’s. Venom accepts this without deciding for himself what it means, and this is what tragically leads to his death by the hands of Solid Snake – I get it. But just because he is suppose to represent us doesn’t excuse a lack of characterisation – maybe it’s just me but his constant thousand yard stare and awkward silence doesn’t make me any more attached to his character. I guess you could argue his stoicism made the very few (or the only scene) when he shows any discernable sign of emotion that doesn’t need to be read into deeply through your own personal interpretation of why his mouth twitched in a certain way during one of his routine awkward silences.

            The cringe-drive: the Skullface and Venom car pool sequence (apart from making me cringe into my own chair due to how pathetic it was) felt like an allegory for the TPP’s story – the entirety of chapter 1 built up to a one sided conversation while Venom replays the same idle animation over and over, Skullface explains his plan – because if he didn’t explain it then, when will he? Then Sins of the Father blurts out, not signifying a moment of introspection and interlude – but signifying an abrupt interruption in a conversation clearly lacking production which immediately begins again after the song ends.

            I’m going to stop now, I can ramble on for a while but the key takeaway is TPP did alot wrong in the story department, but the genius of it is how Kojima tweaked what he had to fit into the themes of the story. I game we got is honestly the best possible game we could of got based on the situation and working conditions Kojima and his team was put in – don’t believe that the game was effected to some degree by Konami? Watch last year’s VGA and tell me Konami is a company that respects its employees. It’s really a miracle the game is as good as it is.

          • DonquixoteDoflamingo

            So you are telling that MGS2 can use it’s gameplay and other stuff that goes beyond just writing to convey what it wants while V somehow can’t do the same and somehow must follow the absolute “writing” format……………

            Also the jet ride scene was custom made and the sins of the fathers playing had a purpose for it
            : https://www.reddit.com/r/metalgearsolid/comments/3ykyc6/an_analysis_of_the_structure_and_meaning_of_the/

            What you are basically telling is that MGS meta stuff is mind-blowing when it’s spelled out to the players while V’s, which is like more subtle version of 2 and 4, underneath the surface style doesn’t work because *insert reasons*.

          • JJBYACH

            No, MGSV’s meta message was not well executed like MGS2. MGS2 had the entire game lead up to its post modern subtext – I don’t see how this is classed as spelling it out? Having a huge reveal due to a steady trickle of foreshadowing is bad now? Stuff should just appear out of nowhere in order for it to be “subtle” and intelligent. MGSV’s vagueness comes from poor writing. The big reveal come out for nowhere. Why? Why does Venom randomly remember who he is? Does this have any thematic relevance whatsoever? No it doesn’t. Or does it?

            We can argue about this forever, but they key takeaway is the vagueness of MGSV can and will be argued as intentional – and I agree; the structure of the game has been deliberately designed to emphasis certain core theme of the game and that is intelligent and all, I appreciate it and all, but if you remove all the post modern subtext you are left with a story about a man trying to kill some guy with a burned face. You are arguing the story is great because it is intentionally made the way it is, I guess that is cool in a sense but it doesn’t take away from the fact that these issues intentional or not are in the game. All the other games had some sort interesting story when looked at literally. I’m not arguing the meta message is bad, it’s not as good as MGS2 – but that is a subjective thing, it still has a very cool meta message, but look at MGSV literally – is it honestly a good story? The best post modern art (in terms of fiction) is one that conveys themes in both an external and internal context – and MGSV only succeeds at the former.

        • DonquixoteDoflamingo

          ” seriously, who is holding the microphone in some of the tapes with Zero?”
          …………………………. I seriously hope this isn’t serious.

          • JJBYACH

            I think you missed the point. In a franchise synonymous for going out of its way to contextualise narrative beats through sometimes overt and unneeded exposition, the execution of the tape system is just disheartening. It just feels lazy no matter how you look at it.

            It is much easier to write scenarios that happen external to the narrative than internally – it’s easier to write Zero’s confession and magically give it to the player to listen to than actually write a scenario explaining why, how and when Venom got tapes detailing information directly from the mouth of the most secretive man on the planet. You get my drift? Adding context to scenes is an essential part of good writing, and doing otherwise just appears lazy. Imagine in GTA, having the car conversations replaced with you receiving CD’s you can choose to play in you car which are just prerecorded conversations with the rest of the ensemble that happened either before or after the current mission you are on. Which one is better? Seeing events transpire first hand or hearing about them after the fact?

            I get the intention – absorbing exposition whilst doing something else in gameplay is a great idea. Why not just have the Codec system with a jpeg image of the character(s) you are talking to in a corner out of the way of the important elements on the screen, with a button where Snake can tell the recipients of the Codec to shut up (pausing the conversation) while he does something, then the player presses the button again so Snake can tell the recipients to continue on – this way you can get go out of your way to call characters to receive the exposition, but this time conversations are dynamic, not one sided, have contextual relevance, happens during gameplay during the present with the player as an active participant; not just an observer after the fact.

          • DonquixoteDoflamingo

            Wow what a way to take a plot device and completely over-analyze the shit outta it to the point where it’s completely past the point of any relevance.

            I am sorry but this is one of the most retarded nitpicky points i have ever seen in any fandom.

          • JJBYACH

            I agree, this conversation is pointless. I think you are confused on the definition or plot device:

            “A plot device (plot mechanism) can be anything which moves the plot forward. A contrived or arbitrary plot device may annoy or confuse the reader, causing a loss of the suspension of disbelief.”

            The key word is “plot” – the tape system is not a plot device; it’s a game mechanic us to convey elements of plot. A plot device refers to the systems used to illustrate the actual story, not the interface used to convey the story. Is a single page in a book a plot device, then?

            You praise the game on being postmodern (being a game and a story – whatever that means), but ignore it’s flawed execution of those principles.

            http://www.m.theartstory.org/definition-postmodernism.htm

            “Postmodernism overturned the idea that there was ONE inherent meaning to a work of art or that this meaning was determined by the artist at the time of creation.”

            MGSV has multiple meanings, but without the post modern subtext – when you take the game literally, the story is lacking. Good postmodern art conveys its themes literally and externally (meta wise).

            I guess this is meaningless, as art is subjective and I always thought how art makes you feel will always be more important than the artists intent. You can forever tell me how meta, intelligent and thought provoking Kojima wrote the game to be – but I never interpreted it that way. I think you are right on many points – it fundamentally comes down to our difference in tastes.

            We both think this game is a masterpiece, just for widely different reasons.

          • DonquixoteDoflamingo

            Yes let me take a shit and have a philosophical discussion about it’s content or some bs like that ……… LMFAO!!!!!

          • JJBYACH

            Hmm.

            “Maybe the part about this being a game and a story escapes some peoples minds.”

            No, it doesn’t escape their minds; you’re only choosing to look in extremes – either they like TPP “being a game and a story” or they are pretentious nitpickers.

            But if your statement about TPP “being game and a story” means what I think it means: that certain contrivances – things lacking attention, or things happening out of context for reasons – should be over looked as MGSV is an interactive story which allows participation by the viewer? If that was what you meant; then, I agree (or I apologise for putting words in your mouth).

            As an interactive medium some stuff need to be overlooked by its audience in order for one to get truly immersed and enjoy the story. This has been coined as narrative dissonance, and is shaped like a curve that one must climb over to truly get immersed on the story – however, art is subjective and how steep that narrative dissonance curve is, is relative to the player, some may find elements un-immersive whilst others may look at the same elements and not care. The cassette tapes and the manner they are presented in for reasons I have explained prior disrupt my personal immersion into the story, for you it doesn’t – that is fine and logical: people have different tastes, but disregarding the objective flaws impacting my subjective interpretation of Kojima’s creative vision as nitpicky and even retarded, in quasi passive aggressive manner, just because a certain element doesn’t negatively impact your own immersion to the same degree it does so to me… Really?

            You praise the postmodern subtext and meta meaning and ignore the flaws in its execution. What separates exceptional postmodern art from just postmodern art is having both the literal (internal) and non literal (meta/external) narrative be executed well, I believe MGSV exceeds (“attempts” is a better way to put it) in the latter but fails in the former. Without the meta narrative, looking at the game literally – can you honestly say its a good MGS story? All the previous MGS’s when looked at literally are good stories, MGSV was lacking for me. If you were satisfied with the tale of Snake’s revenge in a literal sense – ignoring the structure of chapter 2, the mechanical storytelling and meta narrative – then good for you. I don’t know if you’ve played Life is Strange but that game is a great example of a good post modern work: the game is about deconstructing the “choose your own adventure” genre, deconstructing how choice defined in games is fundamentally different from choice in reality and how the medium can convey feelings of empathy in ways none of could (am I over analysing? The game developmers speak about th meta message themselves in the directors commentary); in a literal sense the game is an emotional drama about friendship, loss and adolescence – it affected me on an emotional level – something MGSV didn’t really do (except mission 43, that was beautiful). If TPP did affect you then good. But again, don’t disregard my opinion as non-sense.

            I’ve been trying to subtly imply this, but I am not a good writer so I’ll just come out forthwith: my issue is not with people liking the game, it’s with someone having an issue with another person’s own interpretation of something as subjective as an art piece, because it’s different. I doubt this was your intention but it certainly came across that way.

            The Boss’ legacy: “It’s about respecting the wills of others whilst staying true to your own”.

          • DonquixoteDoflamingo

            Lol you might as well fucking ask who the camera man is considering how we can’t have a story without explaining totally irrelevant stuff like who holds the camera or mic.

            Opps the camera man saw the real Big Boss smoking on a bike and didn’t say anything to anyone lmfao. PLOT HOLE= SHITTY WRITING= SMART PHILOSOPHICAL DISCUSSION= PRETENTIOUS HACKS.

            I am sorry but you just destroyed any credibility you might have had before. This is just way to retarded and pretentious and the fact that you are seriously arguing this is what makes this even more retarded and pretentious. Don’t know if i should laugh or feel sorry for you.

          • JJBYACH

            Really, man? Why are you taking this so personal? The point keeps missing your head – or you keep dodging it: either one.

            As I poorly implied before and then outright stated previously my issue is not with the “plot holes”: it’s with people dismissing other people’s opinions as retarded without putting your self in their position and using the evidence they have presented to see and appreciate why they have that opinion – I disagree with some of the reasons you use to defend the game, but I appreciate and understand why you like the game, all your points are entirely valid based on your personal perception – I’m just providing a counter opinion, you don’t need to like it just understand that yes indeed it exists: this is the basis of societal empathy.

            I’m getting tired of preaching to the choir at this point – if you still don’t get what I’m saying; pretentious, self indulgent or as unnecessary as you think it is – if this still doesn’t make sense, then all I have to say is XD.

          • DonquixoteDoflamingo

            Really? You are whining about people not taking you seriously when you are pretentiously over-analyzing the part that in NO WAY relates to the game at all. But ok for few mins, i’ll humor you and take you seriously so tell me in simple words how does “who holds the mic” relevant to the game. And why does the camera man not count? I mean those are narrative devices but apparently a story needs to go into detail on who holds those devices.

          • JJBYACH

            I’ll try and explain a complex device in the most simple way I can, even though you claim that I am unnecessarily over analysing but at the same time asking me to over analyse even more than before.
            But, I still have to explain why the camera and tape system is not the same first:

            Camera = story; a story isn’t bound by anything (theoretically endless) unless the creator uses something to specifically pick what parts of the story the audience should experience (film = camera, book = words + pages + chapters, game = camera + interactivity + words. A big generalisation, yes but you get the point). A camera is a lens into the world – it’s not a narrative device, think if you more like an omnipotent entity: the same as sound, lighting and various other factors that help present the story, not tell it (at least in most traditional media and not high level art that don’t rely on conventional storytelling techniques + written dialogue to tell its stories, but MGSV isn’t that)

            So by that logic the tape system also = story? No. The tape system is something used to help tell the story within the lens of the camera. If you shut off the camera, sound, lighting, acting of TPP the game and the story both collapse. If you shut off the tape system, nothing really is effected, I turn off sound, remove all the actors, change the lighting to pitch black the story becomes near unintelligible – as I said the tape system is a method helping to tell the story which is presented using other factors like the camera, sound, lighting. Therefore it doesn’t need to be explained in the story – the story doesn’t need to explain why Kiefer Sutherland is playing Snake because without Kiefer or anyone acting as Snake; there will be no Snake, likewise the game doesn’t need to explain why the camera exists as it is an external force of nature that the entire story hinges on.

            Ok, have I in all my pretentiousness somewhat explained how the camera is a vital aspect of presenting the story whilst the tape system is just a mere means of helping tell it once all those factors I have previously mentioned are in place? I know I keep going on and on about the same point; I’m not trying to be condescending or insult your intelligence but you keeps missing the point of near everything I say. I agree that I do go into unnecessary depth – but that is because you keep asking me to, you keep missing the point so I have to keep going deeper.

            So as a method of telling a story, I can now explain why “who’s holding the microphone” is an issue. The tape system (well, more so the truth tapes), remains disconnected from the story. Some tapes – specifically the truth tapes – appear magically on the iDroid, dictating events that either happened to the far in the past or too far in the future, having zero baring on the present (which is the time period the game is set in). As you stated a plot hole is a contradiction. Kojima internalised the tape system in the narrative, he made it become less of a plot device and more of a part of the actual story – Snake has a cassette player, people physically give him tapes, canonically Snake listens to the tapes (which ones? Who knows – which is endemic to the problem): it’s not “just” a magically way of telling the story, it’s a physical part of the story that characters are aware of, acknowledge and interact with at certain times, other times the game treats the tapes as a pure method of telling the story – an inherent contradiction. Therefore since it has been contextualised, it has to have the rules of the game world imposed on it. How do tapes work in the real world? Exactly. So why doesn’t the game specify who the microphone man is and how Snake gets those truth tapes; but, they explicitly show at other occasions that the tape system is a real thing and not just a means of telling the story? Because it’s an impossible scenario that is not very resource intensive to make and the alternative would be making them a physical scene we experience that takes alot of time, money and resources.

            Okay, but sometimes you have to cut corners, that is the nature of being a content creator, right? What a commendable thing to have done was either: cut the truth tapes for being inconsistent with how they are presented throughout the game (I think that would be the worst option: th actual content of the truth tapes was great), or find a way to contextualise why those tapes don’t work the way it did previously.

            Is this nitpicking? Maybe? I think I wouldn’t this dissonance as big of a problem if these types of slowly mounting small issues doesn’t happen so much in the game, and if the game was made by anyone’s other than Kojima – a man who usually goes above and beyond to make his crazy crazy world’s subconsciously believable but vague enough for speculation and intrigue. It just seems he dropped the ball on this one. It just seems to me that game is more vague for the sake of being vague – probably caused by some of the production issues as well as him taking his critisms about the previous games too close to heart.

            You can argue every and any critism as nitpicking to be honest, some people may point out flaws that other people don’t care about. But, honestly; maybe you’re right, me and everyone who has major issues with the story are idiots or just completely insane (it’s not a bad story, it’s a very good one, just not as exceptional as other MGS games). They say people who are clinically insane don’t recognise that their logic is; well – illogical. Maybe that is the case here.

            I think at the point we can both agree that this is getting ridiculously drawn out. At first I enjoyed fleshing out my opinions, it, I was somewhat therapeutic venting, but at this point I am getting tired of writing essays, and you are tired of reading them – it’s entirely my faulty for dragging this out for this unnecessarily long.

            Let’s just agree to disagree.

        • Kol Leqejza

          the best fucking thing i’ve ever read about MGS V.

    • Full Options

      There are unfortunately a lot of factors making it hard to understand various fans feelings about V.

      Saying it’s a mess is quite rude for me, but I am ok with the picture / understand why some fans could be disapointed.

      Saying it’s top-notch-perfect MGS (with a Hideo in the usual peaceful dev conditions until the end) is a bit too much, but I am ok with the picture too / understand that tons and tons of V contents are completely incredible in the story and needless to say in the gameplay.

      The truth is always somewhere between extremes.

      From the first MG to MGS 4, I had the habit to experience and expect each time truly innovative rock-stable-solid gameplay with very original and cool long stories.

      George Lucas shows in some documentaries that the rhythm / scene selection is extremely hard, since you must watch the movie many many times before making the right choices.

      Some directors do this job sometimes after (director’s cut).

      I think that here Hideo was clearly and wildly halted by Konami, hereby clearly impacting the polishing process (and slight parts of the R&D I may add). I mean if somebody have some doubt about it, they are free to refer to the last TGA, to convince themselves about which vindicative atmosphere Konami created around Hideo and his team.

      They did not let him organize the “at run-time” story structure properely, giving hereby to some this impression of mess, but what is not fair, is that individually, all heavy plot elements are very well polished.

      They did not let him enough time to bind / rhythm them optimally, which is always the final stage along with intensive QA. My attention was as captive as when playing MGS 2, 3 or 4, but I felt a bit spread over awesome seperate candy’s. Maybe it is the series episode format that made it hard to integrate (specially if KCE f.ckd up).

      Nevertheless, I am extremly happy with how Hideo managed to pull up this title despite the sad climate. This is really a true miracle to have something that awesome.

      • JJBYACH

        Exactly – part of this game’s genius is how he knew the game wouldn’t entirely reach the ambition he was aiming at (narrative wise), so he tweaked and manipulated what he had to strengthen the games thematic concepts e.g. Revenge theme conveyed mechanically through the inherent structure of chapter 2; feelings of perpetual anger and emptiness generated through that. Open world + clockwork of scripts ready for us to throw a monkey wrench into + system driven game design = storytelling based on our actions not Kojima’s pre written words – links into games themes of language. I appreciate the intentions despite it not being exactly what I wanted. I feel Kojima tried to subsidised the unpolished nature of the story by systematically pushing the focus onto mechanical storytelling rather than his writing – and that is quite ingenious.

        • Full Options

          Yeah, if we schematize /simplify all our interrogations, the biggest fact left remains the obviously heavy problem between Hideo and other Konami’s board member(s) (besides the lack of skilled psychiatrists at Konami to take care of the current CEO mental pathologies, :D) last year.

          The actual state of The Phantom Pain was the best solution Hideo could come up with and seeing the quality of what was shipped, it is pretty clear that he marvelously solved the problem. He tried really hard to provide us the coolest toy he could.
          At least for me he surpassed this challenge way better that I could possible imagine.

          • JJBYACH

            True, in an ideal world where the chimpanzees in suits running Konami were in the zoo where they belong rather than running a conglomerate, I think the game would be better than the one we got.
            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f602dbf0d2c7c0984e108171fa60a6d8c8aba079f4441c0d595e36ee3fefcb79.jpg
            ^^^^
            An insiders photograph of a secret board meeting at Konami Japan’s lair.

            But we cannot live in exclusively on our ideal world’s. Having things go wrong is the bane of all our existences, and it will happen (Murphy’s Law: all things that can go wrong, will go wrong) but a true sign of maturity and even intelligence is not giving up, working through that situation to make it work the best way you know how.

          • Full Options

            You rude with chimpanzees. They are nobel prizes compared to Konami’s board… xD

        • DonquixoteDoflamingo

          Or you know Kojima just improved on his old style and conveyed more through gameplay, visuals and audio rather than words?

          • JJBYACH

            Personally think his writing ability has gotten worse over time, or maybe it’s just creative fatigue and MGS’s convoluted narrative weighing on him.

            But, his abilities at devising narratives told through the mechanics absolve a healthy chunk of his incompetence as a writer. He has gotten better at that.

            Yet, I don’t get how people can look at MGSV and state that the game is near perfect and Kojima intended and always planned for MGSV to turn out like it did. I mean even with the glaring evidence collated over the span of about a decade, showing that Konami is a abhorrent company that cares little about both its consumers and employees generating revenue for them. I mean did people not watch the VGA’s? Did they not see the passive aggressive grudge Konami has towards Kojima and his team? He worked, tweaked and bent what he had to create the best damn game he could of in that type of situation.

      • DonquixoteDoflamingo

        I am ok with your opinion but can someone provide me examples of where Konami come into considering that fact Kojima majority of the story, themes, thematics idea figured out in 2011 and the conflict between Kojima and Konami didn’t start until 2015 or else Silent Hills and PT would have never been a thing.

        • Full Options

          Fan-fiction, I am truly flattered. Yeah probably. You know, I never hide anything to anyone. And if you think it is easy for me to spit on Konami… What can I say ? Before last year, you could not have find greater Konami’s fan than people like me, since 82-3 or something. Nemesis, AKA Gradius was the first bang for me, Knightmare 1/2/3, Yie ar Kung Fu 1/2, Antartic/penguin Adventure, Legend of Usas, and more, titles before Hideo was even working there. I was 10->18 years old you please don’t tell me if I hate Konami or not… Please take the time to know people and even if you know them don’t ever abandon yourself to judge them.

        • Full Options

          I am trying to create…

  • XIFF-5

    I agree with him at some points, however the story being unfinished, the feeling of phantom pain and the feeling of emptiness were so accurate in describing what I felt at the end of TPP and it is ok with me but, what will satisfy more is making another MGS game continues and fill that gap that has been left with BB and Venom Snake and many other things.
    I think the reason of the rage from the fans about MGSV being not an MGS game, lacking of story and unfinished is all about the perspective you see from it on MGSV’s ideas and storytelling, it is not like old MGSs where they had one direct perspective and idea to deliver to the player.
    .
    .
    Anyway… An open ending game might be good for future MGSs, thats how i see it.

    • DonquixoteDoflamingo

      Wow even though i don’t agree with most of what you said, you really nailed it with point of people hating V due to it having different structure and way of telling the story.

  • Gatsu

    This was interesting reading, I enjoyed it. I wasn’t mad about not being the real Big Boss, but I just wished for a epic last boss fight and a epic long ending cutscene instead of being infront of the mirror only. The ending cutscene is excellently done, but too short and it should be much longer. But there’s no point going on with this anymore :), it’s not gonna change anyway. ^^

  • Jav

    Yeah, right. Kojima planned all, he is god. Please. This is not like mgs2 and mgs2 is not a masterpiece.

    • He isn’t god, but people dismiss MGSV a little too easily. And he does plan a lot in advance, as you can see the story themes were already in place as far back as 2011, before we even knew the game existed.

    • DonquixoteDoflamingo

      Remove Kojima out of the equation, remove MGS out of the equation and see how the game provides a formal reading of this stuff.

      You can deny it all you want but the game provides a consistent reading of these ideas. Kojima isn’t really saying anything. People’s interpretation are speaking of the work, and they are consistent with the game supporting those ideas.

      If you want to deny them then come up with your own formal reading that provides prove for why you think whatever you think otherwise stay out of the topic.

    • XOF

      Lol, Kojima isn’t god. I dont hear many people say he is god. Only a few die hard fans are like that. Just like any other fanbase like final fantasy or fallout.

  • Eugene Voldo

    >Afghanistan

    >Oil, minerals

    Are you having a laugh? If you think that Soviet Union started military campaign in Afghanistan to secure natural resources then I don’t think you ever tried to understand this world.

    >Some players couldn’t accept that there was a new main character, Raiden, and they got really angry.

    He is like totally missing the point of criticism. Raiden is a character. He exists in MG universe. Now who is this Big Medic? It’s me. It’s you. It’s everyone around you and me. We are not part of MG universe in any way, shape or form. So in the end we all lose. “BUT FOB! You can make world nuke-less! You can surpass the big boss himself!..” – get the hell out of here. After ten infiltrations I lost any interest in this mode.

    >massacre on Mother Base

    Don’t know about you guys, but I think this massacre scene was hilarious. I mean, what should I do when I point the gun on some random guy named “Elephant Shoe” or girl named “Greasily Balls”? I laugh.

    The whole interview actually reads like “you should really love this game! It’s deep! Because MGS2 and Moby Dick!.. And Kojima is such a genius!”. It’s still an interesting read, but his actual friendship with Kojima is really showing.

    • DonquixoteDoflamingo

      V has lot more connection to world-history then most people realize : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvvqiQFwcX8

      Also way to miss the entire point of the game being open both gameplay-wise and in-universe wise.

      So you found it funny……… So do you want a cookie or something for that? That mission is universally praised by fans and haters of the game alike. The event itself isn’t anything. It’s the way the game uses 20-30 hours of game play to contextualize the mission is what makes it stand out and make it one of the greatest moments in gaming history.

      I can link to other articles that talk about similar stuff but you will probably use the straw-man argument of them being Kojima “fans” or something.

      • Eugene Voldo

        >V has lot more connection to world-history then most people realize

        well. yeah. I’m not arguing with that.

        >open in-universe wise

        Tell me. Who is Mr. Big Medic? A no-name guy whose existence doesn’t matter for MG canon or an actual character that adds something meaningful for lore?

        • The fact that he was a medic is basically irrelevant. It’s about who he becomes, what role he takes on and what it means to the player.

          • Eugene Voldo

            The story about any man ever on Earth are about who he becomes. Yet if we assume that Big Medic is a universe character then why it’s doesn’t matter who he was? Why it’s necessary for any other characters except Venom? Does it make him a unique character? No, but it does make him a bland one. A ideal type of character that existing only for half-baked twist in the end.

          • He is intentionally bland, because his old identity doesn’t matter anymore, it’s gone. His role in MGSV is to be the physical manifestation of the concept ‘Big Boss’. That is who he is now.

          • Eugene Voldo

            >He is intentionally bland

            Agree. If he wasn’t bland, how can you say that Big Medic is you or me or him?

            >His role in MGSV is to be the physical manifestation of the concept ‘Big Boss’

            And that is exactly why he is a meaningless doll. At least for me. What’s the point for Venom? He is here to show how Big Boss fallen and became «evil». But the game doesn’t show anything at all, except for the last cut-scene which still hardly shows Boss in a bad light. Kojima tried to turn Big Boss “evil” for 2.5 games and that’s all we got. It’s a real dissapoinment.

          • DonquixoteDoflamingo

            You are not very bright when it comes to reading underneath the surface , are you?

            I asked this before and i’ll ask this again HOW the fuck did you come to love MGS2? When that game requires the player to examine the thematic and read underneath the surface plot-line to understand what the game is trying to convey.

          • Eugene Voldo

            >I asked this before and i’ll ask this again HOW the fuck did you come to love MGS2?

            Oh, I remember! I haven’t actually beat it. There was some bug in the end (right after the big fight with RAYs). Maybe that’s why I didn’t hate it? But still story-wise MGS1 is far better. It’s pretty straightforward game and the twist is a funny one with Codec reveleation.

          • JJBYACH

            I know; no one asked my opinion but here it is anyway: I think the fundamental basis that determines people appreciating MGS2’s meta narrative and the one present in MGSV’s is execution. MGS2’s map, characters, bosses even music – every aspect of the game was specifically designed to lead up to the reveal that Raiden was essentially playing a messed up simulation of MGS1. Now fast forward to MGSV, the execution of its reverse MGS2 meta narrative (the player becomes the protagonist in MGSV rather than the protagonist slowly rejecting the player in MGS2) far less thought out.

            The intro teases it and then it’s pretty much absent for the rest of the game, aside from a few handful of scenes that tease it; scenes so few and far between you can count them on one hand. The big twist to rival MGS2’s S3 plan reveal, stringing all the thematic concepts present and teased throughout MGSV together – the key to post modernism is context, both internal to its narrative and external to it: Mission 46, appears out of nowhere, no context, no deeper meaning, no thematic ties in the way it is presented – it just appears for the sake of appearing and explaining questions the game half-heartedly asked. Then the truth tapes randomly appear after completion, also with no context; it’s impact lost due to them occurring long after or long before the present you are playing in: in some abstract realm outside of the its own plot, with barebones coherency with near anything within the lore and self contained plot – who the hell is holding the microphone when zero is talking? Isn’t zero suppose to be the most secretive and hidden man in the world? How does Venom get a hold of of the truth tapes? The game doesn’t try and answer these questions that poke glaring holes into the presentation and immersion, which is disheartening to see in a game made by a man who prides himself on his obsession with details and exposition explaining said details. Maybe this is intentional though – these inconsistencies are just abstract in context, rather than inherently post modern – the subtext is still there but not the driving force like MGS2. As Kenji stated, context and perspective is a important part of the game, which makes a part of me believe it could be intentional – in which I appreciate the intention but it still doesn’t make for a good story.

          • DonquixoteDoflamingo

            You aren’t supposed to think about Venom’s backstory because it really isn’t relevant to any stuff in TPP. He is supposed to be a Big Boss-Body-Double, and has no recollection of his old life confirmed by Ocelot who is an expert in this type of work.

            That’s pretty much the whole point of TPP showing you that Big Boss turned his best man into him without asking him or giving him the freedom to choose which could be then be connected to the Boss and the government and what made Big Boss originally leave them and start his own private military. The Boss died for the government, while Venom died for the sake of Big Boss legend.

          • Eugene Voldo

            Yeah, I understand your point more clearly now. But for me it’s still a tragedy that anyone can mention in one sentence The Boss – one of the greatest character in series – and Venom, the blandest one. That’s my problem. Venom is a no-name character. He exists only for a plot-twist that should make Big Boss a bad person in the eyes of the player. But does the game needed plot-twist? My opinion – hell no. Remove plot-twist and you will see how the storyline hardly changes.

          • DonquixoteDoflamingo

            It’s not about storylines. MGS has a generic storyline if you throw out it’s themes and characters. Those stuff is what makes MGS mind-blowing as it is.

            Also i noticed that you are really trying to understand my POV on the stuff while i have been nothing but a douchebag towards you so i apologize for that.

            I am very very passionate about the MGS so in discussions like these i end up coming off as an extreme douchebag. And i am really really sorry for that.

          • He doesn’t exist for the plot twist, he exist for the underlying theme. Plot twists in Metal Gear are always meant to tell you something about the theme. They are never there just for the sake of it.

        • DonquixoteDoflamingo

          Because everything has to connect to the lore, right?
          Sorry but lore doesn’t mean shit in any way.
          Venom is an universe character that’s used as a foil to Big Boss, highlighing his flaws and building the idea of Big Boss being icon just like Big Brother in 1984 novel while also showing how Big Boss became the very thing he hated in MGS3.

          And out of the universe he is the player. Or rather players are the real Big Boss of the MGS series.

          • Eugene Voldo

            That’s a contradiction that lies in your argument. If it’s a universe character then why his backstory doesn’t matter? Then why we should care for Big Boss’ story? Why we should care for any characters’ past?

            >Or rather players are the real Big Boss of the MGS series

            Erm… But we kind of know it since the beginning of the franchise. Cause we actually playing as a Snake in all mainline MG games (except MGS2 and MGSV).

            >opne-world part

            I’m not gonna argue here, since it’s personal preference. I’m more akin to small focused experiences than open-world games.

          • DonquixoteDoflamingo

            “That’s a contradiction that lies in your argument. If it’s a universe character then why his backstory doesn’t matter? Then why we should care for Big Boss’ story? Why we should care for any characters’ past?”……………………………………………… I …… can’t………even…….. What…is ….up ….with…… this …… level …… of……. incompetence.

            “Erm… But we kind of know it since the beginning of the franchise. Cause we actually playing as a Snake in all mainline MG games (except MGS2 and MGSV).”……………………………. How the hell did you come to love MGS2? http://www.popmatters.com/post/you-are-big-boss-antagonism-and-antagonists-in-the-metal-gear-universe/

          • Eugene Voldo

            >incompetence

            That was really close-minded!

            >How the hell did you come to love MGS2?

            Dunno. I just love it. It’s a great game. Even though I like MGS1 more. But game-play MGS2 is the real king.

      • Eugene Voldo

        >That mission is universally praised by fans and haters of the game alike

        Facts do not exist, remember? My interpretation is that the beginning of the mission is amazing, true, but the end totally ruined with random names of your soldiers. Freaking Elephant Shoe! I pissed myself laughing.

        >being Kojima “fans”

        Yeah, probably. I hate MGSV story and its open-world structure with PW-inspired base-building. But for some reason I still love MGS2.

        • DonquixoteDoflamingo

          “Yeah, probably.” So you are pretty much admitting that you are close-minded……… Ok then……

          • Eugene Voldo

            To be open-minded I have to agree with you? Yeah, I’m not agreeing with you, so i’m close-minded.

          • DonquixoteDoflamingo

            ….. Because i totally said that you must agree with me to be open-minded? What a way to showcase your incompetence.

          • Eugene Voldo

            Then what criterions do you use to judge me as close-minded person if it’s not for agreeing with you?

          • DonquixoteDoflamingo

            I literally quoted that part in my other post but you answered” Yeah, probably” when i said that you will disregard any praise for V and claim the person to be a Kojima fan. That right there is the pure definition of close-mindedness.

          • Eugene Voldo

            But you would link me articles that only supports your point of view and completely disregards mine. It became obvious that open-minded person for you is the one agreeing with you. But still I think that in this kind of disputes the true facts are born.

          • DonquixoteDoflamingo

            It’s not about me linking you to people. It’s about you disregarding anything that doesn’t automatically stroke your own ego and opinion of the game.

            I am all up for different opinions but not a single person in the entire fandom has managed to make a well-formed argument on why the game is disappointing or why the story is shit. It’s pretty much something that you should either agree on without any knowledge or be labeled a Kojima fanboy/dick sucker.

            And this isn’t the first time this has happened in the fanbase. MGS2 release was the exact same thing and now look where the game is.

          • Eugene Voldo

            >It’s about you disregarding anything that doesn’t automatically stroke your own ego and opinion of the game.

            You disregarded my opinion as well, no? My interpretaion vs yours. It’s like MGSV all over again!

            > well-formed argument

            You will probably never see it. And it’s not because never has managed to make one.

            >MGS2 release

            That’s the problem/ I love MGS2. Thou I admit that I played it long after the release.

    • JJBYACH

      Elephant shoe… Lol. I get it, man; it can be difficult having an empathetic connection to a character called Greasy Balls, but I believe the power of the sequence wasn’t exactly due to me thinking “God, Greasy Balls was such a great character, RIP”: in fact it was the complete opposite; what impacted me the most was how impersonal the entire ordeal was.

      At that point my Diamond Dogs was huge, hundreds of staff members far surpassing Peace Walker’s MB, in the dispatch missions when a staff member died I didn’t give a single shit, the resources gained far surpassed the people I lost – unlike Peace Walker where each loss felt like a personal failure, TPP highlights the more corporate structure and business like ideology Kaz was pressing for BB to take on board at the end of Peace Walker.

      Now, going back to the hallway massacre scene. The game forces you to kill a large amount of staff members, for the first time in the game (aside from the first parasite outbreak), you can see your units levels decrease at a considerable level; I felt more upset about having to spend extra time re-leveling my units after their deaths, juxtapose my cynicism with Venom’s genuine remorse really made me think of the concept of war as a business, mainly public perception of it. That is how it made me feel – I guess the whole point of Venom Snake was that his reaction to the events of the game is suppose to be the same as yours. But I think at that scene Venom and I felt different things, one of the few (in fact, I think the only time) I felt that Venom was an actual character rather than a caricature.

  • MrVux007

    “To be more precise, the aim is to reveal that the system the world runs on defines Big Boss’s existence as “evil.” That’s why MGSV tells you distinctly that Ahab is you, the player. It says, now you have to experience first-hand the absurdity of being branded a villain by the manipulating ways of the global status quo”
    http://i.imgur.com/lj8AV9j.gif

    • DonquixoteDoflamingo

      And the trailers play a very huge role in this. I mean the trailers showed Venom going nuclear, committing massacres, and supposedly killing children yet the game is completely different from that.

      I think the TPP deals with the “there are no heroes or villains in war” better than MGS3.

      • MrVux007

        Exactly! That is why I never saw Big Boss(even before MGS V)as an strait on crazy villain,as he was potrayed in Metal Gear 1 & 2

        • DonquixoteDoflamingo

          Yea this was my biggest worry before going into TPP since the game was supposed to be about Big Boss becoming a monster but i was extremely surprised to find the more subtle look at his character and his fall from grace.

    • Mr.Pony

      In other words context is what makes one person change perception/opinion no matter the facts. Facts can be interpreted in many forms, (those damn Patriots and their GW), the problem is, you never feel the doubt about you either being a good or a bad guy in TPP, it only tells the story from Venom’s perspective. You dont feel like a vilain for killing your men, after all you are saving the world by doing it. If it did indeed told the story trough Huey’s eyes as him being biased, that it would have been great, but it just doesn’t happen, that moral line doesn’t appear blurred as it should.

      • RockyRacoon

        No no. The game in quite a few moments makes clear BBs dubious morals. In several missions you kidnap people and torture them for information. This isn’t something nice. Throughout the game you kill targets for your own personal gain. Solid Snake would never do that

        • MrVux007

          “kidnap people and torture them for information.”

          So generally its like everyday war?There is no morality in it,its just assets to the war.

          ” This isn’t something nice. ”

          War is never nice.

          “Throughout the game you kill targets for your own personal gain. Solid Snake would never do that”

          You do realize Solid Snake was part of black ops,during the Gulf War?
          You might ask “So what?”…Well,first let me explain a bit about “black ops” or “black bag” operations;
          Officially black operations dont exist. They involve a group of people that do something for the military/govt. that is against normal restrictions or policies.There are probably hundreds of black ops that you or i will never hear about. This is the nature of the game. When something needs to get done in a manner that would not be politically correct, or for that matter “morally correct”, the government uses these to get stuff done.This is my first point about it.

          My second point,Solid Snake was NEVER in that kind of situation as Big Boss,he never experienced the same losses as Big Boss did.
          Ofc,he was branded as an terrorist after Shadow Moses incident,but being “Patriots puppet” in the sense,he was more useful to them alive then dead (Foxdie virus).

          Indirectly Solid Snake did more harm then good,be it his will or the others,and some would even argue if weather or not if he is an hero or an villain,but as i said once there are no true heroes or villains in Metal Gear series (with the exception of The Boss).

          So weather or not Solid Snake would “do things differently” as Big Boss stated near his death,is highly debatable and really unfair to Big Boss as an character.

          But in the end,when we take everything into consideration,the things all Snake’s did for the sake of “Liberty,Truth,Peace…Revenge”,we can all agree on : http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/2-27-2016/uoUngn.gif

        • Mr.Pony

          Solid Snake did that, he was a soldiers and he followed orders, the difference is he couldn’t take it anymore and went into isolation before Shadow Moses. He then decides to continue on that path for the greater good by establishing Philanthropy with Otacon. Besides in TPP you rescue more people than the ones you torture, and the ones you do torture, you have a pretty solid argument for doing so.

          • That may be so, but it will still be regarded by most people as morally wrong, and contrary to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

          • Mr.Pony

            I get that but things like the Declaration of human rights work more as guide lines than rules themselves, it is part of how the military world is defined in MGS universe. It is indeed morally wrong for us outside the game, civilians in a sense, but it isn’t and never goes to the threshold of morally doubtful in the game, it feels like common practice, a logical step. Which may or may not correspond to the reality here in our world when it comes the military side.

          • DonquixoteDoflamingo

            The players using Africa’s resources to build motherbase, and weapons and getting gmp to rinse and repeat that. You might say that’s nothing but in public eye Venom is no better than Skull Face since he does in fact use lots of resources just to get Skull Face and doesn’t care about the collateral damage.

            Here this video explains it better than me: https://youtu.be/BvvqiQFwcX8?t=8m29s

          • Very interesting video, thanks for sharing!

          • DonquixoteDoflamingo

            No prob 🙂

            If you have time then check out his other videos which are really educating and interested me to check out the games he was talking about.

        • Niccodemus

          Big Boss did do this in previous games, but maybe not to the same level. Solid did this throughout playing as him, though some he tried to save, others he killed after interrogating them for information, his torture method was either through shooting to kill, or maim or what have you in order to get to the actual interrogation part. Though it seems less real the way he does it because it’s more epic and fantastical in the boss fights.

    • TheClay005

      Metal Gear Solid is all about Snake and player only wanted to feel his pain. Not being snake himself.

  • Plissken

    I don’t know if I’d consider MGS2 a masterpiece. Not because you play as Raiden. Its a great game but it was like M. Night Shyamalan putting in as many twists as he could at the end. Snake Eater is the real masterpiece of the series for me because it boils down to love and loyalty which I found more interesting than what Sons of Liberty was about

    • DonquixoteDoflamingo

      I love MGS3 more than MGS 2 but it’s impossible to deny how superior that game is to MGS3 and might possibly be the best game ever created due to it’s themes, fourth-wall break, thematics etc……

      • Plissken

        I read an article some time ago about the many themes of mgs2, in particular never beating a boss, as in Vamp’s immortality, the “fight” against Fortune and the futility of it all and how you’re constantly failing. I get there’s a lot to it and I respect your opinion. Just don’t ask me if I “know what day it is tomorrow”

  • Biggy

    Huey as Ishmael leading you to safety???? What a joke. Hahahahhaha

  • Icosikaidigon

    Unfortunately, people are going to stick with they’re perceptions about how the game is obviously unfinished an so on. It doesn’t help that Kojima himself can’t say anything about the game. But were any of you part of the development team? Did KojiPro ever say that the game that was released was “unfinished” by their standards? How often do games end up including every concept and asset that’s conceived of or developed? How often do developers change their mind about things during development?
    I would not be surprised at all if the product that we have is indeed the product that was intended to be released. I can’t know either way in any case, so I’m suspending my judgement.

  • MrVux007

    Yong made an video on this,(pretty much him reading the entire article lol )

    • Jav

      The worst is when yong makes a 3 minutes video about a kojima tweet.

  • Venom_Sina

    This interview is interesting,but again tells things that we already know.The story of V isn’t that complex.Guys,we know what Kojima tried to do,we know that we are BigBoss.Everyone who comes forward says “yeah you’re BB,that’s the beauty of MGSV…”.Please,not for the 100th time,lol.
    It’s interesting that almost nobody talk about the horrible pacing of the story,especially Ch.2.Yeah,the idea behind V’s story is cool,but how the story goes up to that revelation point?How can everyone not see the terrible storytelling behind this game?Just because we’re BB doesn’t make the story fantastic.

    About that “unfinished” part:Eh….It’s really hard to talk about this.Maybe the game isn’t unfinished,but it FEELS unfinished.The game needs to continue after the big revelation.It needs to complete the gap between 84 and 95 and explain what happens between these years.Okay I’m BB’s decoy,so what now?At least let me play till 95.Let me play and see what happens to this Venom character.
    Personally I don’t see a brilliant/genius thing in leaving some plot lines in the air and then calling it “beauty of MGSV”,lol.

    These discussions never ends.Someone thinks the game is brilliant.He/She has reasons for it and that’s okay.On the other hand we got someone who completely hates the game.He/She has reasons for it and that’s okay,too.There are 6 billion people around the world.Every single one of them has an opinion.That’s the reason behind these arguments.

    • Mr.Pony

      Don’t worry about the 84-95 gap, Konami is working on it http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s–XQfdrSFk–/cskl9gtgsvimktttqser.gif

    • Spectralbuttplug

      “The game needs to finish the gap between 84 and 95”
      Needs to?Who are you to say that?

      • Venom_Sina

        Kojima said V will complete the saga.V should continue to 95 to “complete the saga”.V added almost nothing to the saga.It even brought up more questions.
        I just shared my opinion and for the record,I’m nobody,lol.

    • Yeah, this interview is just someone’s interpretation of the story, but for what it’s worth it’s someone who knows the series (and Kojima) quite well. Of course you don’t have to agree with what he says but he does bring up some interesting points. So it’s just meant for those who are interested in seeing how you can think about the ideas behind the game. For those who aren’t, that’s okay, you can skip it.

      • Venom_Sina

        Yeah.He’s close to Kojima and he talked about some interesting stuff.It’s interesting to know his side of the story.I wasn’t trying to fight it or something,lol.I just wanted to point out some things that it seems everyone are trying to skip.

        My comment was just an opinion sharing,nothing more,and I don’t know why my comments are poisonous and toxic,lol.

        • No problem, discussion is always welcome!

        • Full Options

          You perfectly know why, lol xD. Pure Coss-rhol-basy detected here ! 😀 / Marker placed. (for others, Coss-rhol-basy = Iranian, means jokes / screwups).

          We all know that you like to sadistically amplify your disappointment for V and having fun in provoking / watching all kind of reactions (often cool ones).

          You jester bro ! 😀

          • Venom_Sina

            Coss-khol-bazi is a little mean,lol.Coss-kalak-bazi is more accurate in this case,lol.

          • Full Options

            Heavily Chert-petr assisted as well ! 😀

          • Venom_Sina

            Yeah,but in that phrase,”kalak” doesn’t mean cheating.It’s a slang.And you’re right,Chert-o-pert is the best phrase for this situation,lol.

          • Full Options

            Right, I even wanted to precise but forgot lol. Yeah kalak in this context is typically not pejorative as “cheating” that literally translated (sorry bro). And thanks for the multiple corrections (Chert-o-pert, etc..), you know my farsi is weak ! ;D

          • Venom_Sina

            No problem,bro.Your Farsi is good.You’ve been in the country a little,and you know a lot.It’s not bad,bro.But let’s make your Farsi stronger in the future.

          • Full Options

            Mega-THX my brotha.

    • DonquixoteDoflamingo

      “The game needs to continue after the big revelation.It needs to complete the gap between 84 and 95 and explain what happens between these years.Okay I’m BB’s decoy,so what now?”

      No that’s what you want not what the game was about. Expectation vs the real product.

      Judging anything based on what you expected or wanted to happen is an extremely poor way to approach fiction. Look at what the game is focusing on. Instead of ranting about how the game didn’t fullfill your own fan-fictions and that’s why it’s unfinished.

      • Venom_Sina

        Yeah,I had some expectations and the game didn’t give me those,but what about other parts of the story?How Kojima connected the story dots together?Yeah,in a terrible way.
        V supposed to be the final chapter in MG saga (or at least Kojima’s saga).So why it leaves a lot of things floating in the air?Is it really hard to answer some questions?BB suddenly turned into a cold-hearted villian?How?And I’m supposed to accept that?!!!

        When I finished the prologue,I got disappointed and I kept my expectations to a low level,cause I understood that this is not the game I’m looking for.I tried to enjoy the actual game,but unfortunately I saw too much flaws that didn’t allow me to enjoy the game fully.Man,even the game tried multiple times to spoil itself,lol.With that comment,I just wanted to share my opinion and I gotta say,I don’t judge V with my expectations.I found these flaws within the game and I didn’t compare those with my expectations.

        • DonquixoteDoflamingo

          Sorry but the game brings the series in a full circle thematically which is far better than just connecting dots. As i said before, lore doesn’t mean shit in any way and if you or other people just want to bitch that it didn’t hold your hand and connected dots for no real reasons and disregard the entire game and what does it then really that’s just close-minded in every sense of the word.

          I am tired of lore-nerds disregarding everything just because a game didn’t spend four hours of exposition on repeating irrelevant stuff. V is one of the most relevant games in the series in terms of thematics, and understanding characters like Big Boss, Huey, Miller, Ocelot, Zero etc………

          I advise you to look at the game FOR what IT DOES not WHAT you WANT FROM it.

          • Venom_Sina

            I tried to enjoy the game for what it is,but for me it was very hard to find something great and stick to it.

            Let’s just forget about it.We are from two different worlds.We are like two sides of a magnet,lol.

  • Venom_Sina

    “Hideo Kojima, Hideki Kamiya, Goichi Suda and More Show Off PlatinumGames’ 10th Anniversary Party”

    Nyxus,I think it’s worth covering.

    http://www.dualshockers.com/2016/02/26/hideo-kojima-hideki-kamiya-goichi-suda-and-more-show-off-platinumgames-10th-anniversary-party/

  • Big Bosch

    Looking back right now at MGS V, I wouldn’t want it to have turned out any other way. Like Yano said; I’m Big Boss now, I can hold my head high. I truly feel that way and I think it’s one of the most precious presents I’ve ever received. It really felt like the real Big Boss was talking to me personally in the end, passing down the torch to me. Where MGS V ends, it is time to let go of the MGS series in the same way you let go of someone you love; You always keep him or her in your mind and heart but at the same time move on with your life.

  • TheClay005

    I just finish the game. For me the only connection of TPP ang MG1 is the mission 46. that’s all. The whole game for me is not the missing piece in between. Questions like how does Kaz depart from Diamond Dogs although in the end he knows his one of the player of the real Big Boss. 2. Why Diamond Dogs is after Cipher even though Cipher himself plan the Phantom. 3. Is Ocelot somehow part of N313 and Zanzibar?. In the end I think the one who wanted revenge is only Kaz and Ahab or Big Boss phantom is merely don’t know what his doing.

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