Kojima on the Metal Gear universe: the main character overcomes his fate by passing the baton to the next generation

In an essay published on Glixel, Kojima talks about the movie Logan and how it relates to earlier superhero movies. Interestingly he makes some comparisons with the Metal Gear series, explaining some of his intentions behind the stories.

“In this world, mutants are on the verge of extinction and Logan has lost his place. The universe where superheroes thrived is a distant memory.”

Kojima compares this to the setting of MGS4, in which the protagonist (in this case Snake) is also a symbol of an old, bygone era. One in which he doesn’t really have a place anymore.

“Back in 2008, I did something similar when I put an old Solid Snake into Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots. In the intro, Snake says “War has changed.” His codename was also changed to “Old Snake.” The letters “I” and “S” were removed from the word SOLID: “is” – or in other words “being” – had been taken away from him; he was now Old Snake. In much the same way, both Snake and Logan had their place in the world taken away from them. What place is there in the world for those whose very being has been wrested from them? All that remains is the end of their story – a story of their departure. I attempted to pull the same trick you see in Logan – of simultaneously writing an “end” for MGS4 while trying not to actually end the whole saga.”

“What little time I have left will be spent living… as a beast. A shadow of the inside… of the old age.”

He then talks a bit about one of the most important overarching themes of the series – humanity’s desire to leave something behind after they’re gone.

“Given that dying is the ultimate fate of all humans, how can you resist that fate and attempt to overcome it? In Metal Gear Solid 2, Solidus Snake, who has no ability to reproduce (none of the cloned Snakes can), tries to pass along knowledge of his existence to the next generation through cultural memes. Later, in Metal Gear Solid 3, I depicted overcoming death through the accession of The Boss to Big Boss. Logan tries to overcome fate in a similar way – just like in the MGS series, the main character overcomes his fate by passing the baton to the next generation.”

“I want my memory, my existence to remain. Unlike an intron of history, I will be remembered as an exon. That will be my legacy, my mark on history.”

Kojima also went on to explain that similar to the name ‘Logan’, the code name ‘Snake’ served an important purpose as well.

“Just like Logan, Snake doesn’t ever use his real name, instead taking a title that can be inherited. This “other name” is what allowed us to have several different Snakes appear in the MGS series, and how each could pass the baton to the next generation. The name “Snake” gave them the ability to overcome their individual limitations, pass along their mission, and allow the extended universe to continue. It was always so much more than just a codename.”

After that Kojima makes one more comparison with Metal Gear, referring to how Raiden disposes of his code name at the end of MGS2.

“My take is that this film is called “Logan” rather than “Wolverine” because the baton that he is trying to pass to the next generation is that of his more human persona. This is similar to how Raiden in Metal Gear Solid 2 is at first treated as a pawn, and then awakens as a person: Jack.”

“I’ll pick my own name…and my own life. I’ll find something worth passing on.”

Kojima also noted that in his view, the entertainment medium of video games has already surpassed the storytelling possibilities of film due to its interactive, dynamic nature.

“The entertainment medium of video games has already exceeded the storytelling capabilities of movies. Games can give birth to as many stories as there are players. Games don’t seek to create endless stories – they can already deliver stories that don’t need to end. Games are also more addictive than movies. And let’s face it, endless addictive entertainment is just what the market – and players – ask for.”

To read the entire essay, follow the link in the source section below.

Source: Glixel

  • InternecivusRaptusStrikesBack

    James Howlett and David mudafuka.Two people who are awful role models,fictional and violent as fuck but will never lose respect for.

    • Alex

      But both are self aware of that and try to help others avoid their paths, so in a way, they kinda are role models by showing what not to do and what not to fall into.

      Wolverine and Big Boss are some of my all time favorite characters and I’m absolutely nothing like them.

  • Lex Radu

    Anyone remember when Kojima wanted to make in 2013 a Video Game with “Masso Michaelsen”?
    :))))))))))))
    https://twitter.com/HIDEO_KOJIMA_EN/status/329001717683347456

  • I love Solidus. He is my favorite villain of all time not just in games but in the whole entertainment medium.

    • Raiden: “So you’re the boss around here.”
      Solidus: “No, not just around here. I’m the boss to surpass Big Boss himself.”

      He had some great lines: http://www.metalgearinformer.com/?p=26485

      • moto hellogoto

        Boy do I miss solidus. We need great bad guys like him in every mgs game. It’s what mgsv was missing. 1 Had liquid, 2 had solidus, 3 had the boss, 4 had liquid ocelot, but with V we got skullface who was a big disappointment.

        • Volgin was more like the villain of MGS3. And actually Skull Face wasn’t bad at all, but his role was more limited than what most of us expected beforehand.

          • moto hellogoto

            Volgin was great too, but the build up of the whole game was for a showdown between the boss and snake. And when you finally get to fight her it’s satisfying and sad. And I’m sorry but skullface was terrible as a villian. Yes he did some evil villiany stuff in ground zeroes but we hardly see him at all in TPP. So his death didn’t bring out any emotion at all in me. It was just okay he’s dead. Now what?

          • Well, that was exactly the point, so in that case they succeeded in what they said out to do. 😉

          • moto hellogoto

            Then it was a stupid point.

          • It was meant to show the pointlessness of Kaz’ quest for revenge. How it ultimately leads nowhere. That’s also why the boss fight isn’t at the end of the game but in the middle. And it doesn’t solve anything for Kaz. If you walk around Mother Base after defeating Skull Face you can actually hear guards talking about this. They say they expected Kaz to change after taking his revenge, but it didn’t happen. He remained just as bitter. It’s Kaz’ ‘phantom pain’.

          • moto hellogoto

            Kaz has no character arc in the game. It might have been interesting if after killing skullface he realizes his mistake in seeking revenge and changes in some way, but we don’t see that. Just because there’s a point to the whole thing doesn’t mean it was a
            good idea.

          • But if they’d done that it didn’t tell what Kojima wanted it to tell. Then it would be about revenge being a solution, and Kojima wanted it to be about the endless cycle of revenge and the senselessness of it, as one of the themes. Wether it’s a good idea or not is completely subjective, but what we can say is that it succeeded in what it set out to do, because that’s what Kojima is good at, weaving his themes into every aspect of the game from narrative to game design.

          • moto hellogoto

            I don’t think it’s subjective at all. Without a character arc then you don’t have a good story. Something is a certain way, then it changes. This is a universal truth. Try telling a story to someone where the characters don’t change and then come back to me and tell me how captivated your audience was by your boring story. Kojima certainly told what he wanted to tell, but did he do it in an interesting way? I say no. I didn’t care about skull face like I cared about the other mgs villains. Even the way it affected the main characters was uninteresting. They don’t change at all. And you can say Kojima said what he wanted to say, and I don’t care. I don’t pay $60 to be told a boring story with lackluster characters.

          • Come on, it’s your opinion, can’t we at least agree on that? Please respect the fact that others may have a different opinion on the game.

          • moto hellogoto

            It’s an opinion based on universal truths about story telling.

          • Right…

          • moto hellogoto

            Someone might say that their 3 year olds art is better than the works of Leonardo Da Vinci. I would say they are full of it. But since it’s their opinion that means its as valid as anyone else’s right? No. Because there is a science to beauty and art, just like there is a science to story telling and creating interesting characters. There are certain things that all good stories and interesting characters have, and whatever they are mgsv and skullface didn’t have them.

          • You have a very limited view on what artistic expression is.

          • moto hellogoto

            You sound like the liberal “artists” who take a picture of poop and call it art, and then get angry when someone says its crap.

          • Wow, okay then. Best to leave this discussion for what it is.

          • Full Options

            Cmon Moto calm down. 😀
            To me, this chapter is different. He wanted to stick to less binary, more natural character’s motivations based on their past respective suffering experience.
            Every single character in V has also a strong and guilty dark side. None of them is innocent, all are mercenaries. None but the medic, perhaps.
            Skull Face was just yet another Mantis’s puppet. Mantis is the real villain you are after in V, not Skull face. He just plays with other lives like the perfect devil. One of the very twists of this game is that the villain can not really be defeated. Promotional content in V before release was just showing samples, but the whole puzzle became slowly clear once the game was out. Yet Mantis controlling Volgin in the hospital appear to protect more Snake than anything, because he is playing with his puppets, deciding who will leave and die only when he decide it.
            Starting the game, it is in fact Mantis through Volgin that lead you to Ocelot.

          • moto hellogoto

            CALM DOWN!?!?!?! CALM DOWN!?!?!>!!>!!!! IM CALM OKAY?! lol. Seriously though I’m very calm. Just having a chat .

            Anyways… I think the real villain was the story. Maybe that was Kojima’s point all along? :O It’s so deep.

          • Full Options

            Ok, I understand, but remember the production was heavily annoyed by the satellite sh.t that happened, probably making also hard for him to provide all the surrounding story details he wanted to package in the product. He wanted the most original plug-in between all the chapters. Why wouldn’t he ?

          • Gatsu
          • Full Options

            xD

          • Machine Gun Kid

            Lol so true about liberal artists. That’s really how they are. True liberalism is a good thing but not who most of these clowns are. There really wanna be communists who accuse everyone else of being communists without even realizing it lol. Truly a mental disorder

          • Please keep the American politics out of here, it will only cause arguments and we don’t need that.

          • Machine Gun Kid

            Where in my comment did I say anything about American politics? And going by your comment your suggesting that any other kind of political talk is ok as long as it isent American. Did you mean politics in general? American or otherwise? I also agree with you about politics causing arguements. It’s true but that wasn’t my intention. I was making an observation based on my personal opinion that I happened to agree with someone else about

          • Yeah make that politics in general, but American seem to be the most divisive these days. In any case, it probably wouldn’t be beneficial for the atmosphere here. Thanks for your understanding.

          • Machine Gun Kid

            Yea I agree. Very divisive mainly due to the dishonest media which is foreign owned and operated spewing there manipulative agendas everyday. But I digress.

          • Gil Carreras

            You explained this so well and they’re still not getting it …

          • radun

            But the game doesn’t necessarily tries to tell a “story”. Certainly not like the past games.

            Sure, you have the vocal chord parasites, Sahelantropus, and other ‘story’ elements, but they never have the spotlight, not fully. That’s reserved for the characters and how they cope with it all.

            The game is a character study first and a storyteller second.

          • radun

            That’s exactly the point though. Kaz is unable to change, he stagnates as a character, trapped in an endless search for fulfillment, and this is what seals his fate. Eli, Huey, Boss are all the same.

          • moto hellogoto

            But we know he does ultimately change. It would have been interesting to see how this change started. How he went from the guy we know in the phantom pain to the guy who helped train solid snake to defeat the boss. My biggest problem with the game isn’t Kaz though; I think he is one of the more interesting characters in the game. Actually he is the only one who stands out at all. The rest are pretty forgettable.

            We have a stoic medic who rarely talks. A sniper who says one line the entire game, and even Ocelot wasn’t his usual sadistically charming self. Ocelot is arguably the most interesting character in the entire MGS universe but they somehow made him bland and dull. I’m sure someone will respond by saying there is a point to all of the characters being insufferable bores with the exception of Kaz, but that doesn’t make me feel any better when I’m playing the game and asking myself what happened to these characters I use to love.

          • Venom’s revenge was an empty revenge. His face said it all.
            (I named this pic Void)
            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7d6087b238ddb3b1149349e79f3d734bf8d105b2490200d93bfce4f8a139b7da.png

          • Lex Radu

            Veno is the smartes of all the Snakes, he said Yes, but in the end did his own agenda.

            Huh, not that i think about the is the true embodiement of a Venomous Snake, he did send Solid to kill the real Big Boss.

            Venom might have lost 9 years of his life (and probably wasted 20 years with MSF) but in the end, his Revenge is what started the whole franchise, is how it all went to shit.

            He is the Real Winner, the ONLY Winner!

      • moto hellogoto

        “I’ll let you go out in style” – This is probably my favorite one. He says this right after he shoots a mass of missiles at Raiden on the bridge from plant 1 to plant 2.

      • Full Options
      • NegaScott128
        • moto hellogoto

          He’s the bossiest boss!

          • NegaScott128

            The biggest motherfucking boss you’ve ever seen.

          • moto hellogoto

            He’s not going near my mother.

    • Lex Radu

      *gun clicking sound*

      – Mark Hamill would like to have a word with you!

    • radun

      great character!

    • moto hellogoto

      Brother, I’m a whole different game from liquid.

  • OkitaMakoto

    “Given that dying is the ultimate fate of all humans, how can you resist that fate and attempt to overcome it? In Metal Gear Solid 2, Solidus Snake, who has no ability to reproduce (none of the cloned Snakes can), tries to pass along knowledge of his existence to the next generation through cultural memes.”

    That’s it. We need an Internet meme trading card game starring Solidus.

  • This is pretty cool (fan made):

    • Full Options

      Awesome !!!!!!!!!!

    • Jav

      Fans making better cutscenes than kojima.

      • Oh hello Jav.

        • Jav

          Hi, how are you?

      • Lex Radu

        Nah, the framing of some moments it’s a little off by Kojima standards.

        But pretty good nonetheless.

      • Eugene Voldo

        Well, even if a bit trollish, your comment has a little truth in it. When Kojima is not trying to push into your ears a big exposition dump, he can create a great cut-scene. But here’s the funny thing, in my opinion the best MG cut-scenes (in terms of action, ideas and dialogues) were in MG Rising. They are short, focused and entertaining. That’s what a good cut-scene should be.

        • Rising feels more like a parody on Metal Gear. Entertaining and funny, and its fitting for that type of game, but in terms of depth or nuance it doesn’t compare to the Kojima made games.

          • Eugene Voldo

            Hmmm, parody? No. But it felt different, yes, because Kojima had a minimal input in the game development. I mean, how can you parody “I AM THE BOSS TO SURPASS THE BOSS OF THE BOSSES”? MGS is already a parody in many ways. Even more, MG Rising bosses looked far more serious than MGS2 and MGS3 bosses. And their monologues were epic.

            “What about all the good things war has done for us? Why don’t we ever hear speeches about that? Jobs, technology, a common purpose… All we’re sayin’ is… GIVE WAR A CHANCE!”

            You should replay MG Rising again. It’s a great MG game, sadly not a mainline on, but still freaking amazing!

          • Yes it’s a great game, no doubt, but the tone is just more over the top, like it doesn’t really try to be serious. Especially the last chapter, the fight against Armstrong. ‘Don’t fuck with THIS senator’, ‘Nanomachines, son!’, and then he proceeds to play football using Raiden as the ball. It’s more like a scene from Devil May Cry than Metal Gear.

          • NegaScott128

            Armstrong is really interesting, because when you stop and think about it, he’s basically every Metal Gear villain rolled into one. And thus because of that, his motives make no sense. “I’m gonna free the nation by… controlling everything!” That, plus the absurd tone of his introduction, makes me think that the “parody” argument holds some water. But it’s not a “haha, look how dumb this series is, how stupid are you for liking it” kind of parody. It’s a “haha, look how dumb this series is, isn’t it awesome?” kind of parody. It’s the difference between Airplane and Hot Fuzz.

          • Yeah, it’s well done because it fits the tone of the game and is sort of a staple of the stylish action genre.

          • Eugene Voldo

            >I’m gonna free the nation by… controlling everything!

            This is actually deep philosophy. And it DOES make sense. With my basic english it’s hard to explain why this idea makes perfect sense. You need to read “Demons” by Fyodor Dostoyevsky to fully grasp it.
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demons_(Dostoyevsky_novel)

            >It’s a “haha, look how dumb this series is, isn’t it awesome?”

            To me MG Rising was perfectly fitting into MGS mainline stories. It doesnt do anything over the top. I can agree that some dialogues are defenetly on parody’s side and even satire (Nanomachines, son!), but other things are on par with your usual MGS stuff.

          • NegaScott128

            “It doesnt do anything over the top.”
            https://media.giphy.com/media/vFQcUfbaQcvni/giphy.gif

          • Eugene Voldo

            I raise you!

          • Yes but the tone is very different.

          • Eugene Voldo

            Well, do I need to list every batshit insane thing from mainline games, starting from Raiden with no hands fighting soldiers and do a moonsault to destroy gekos? Or Vampire dancing on the water? Or… I mean, come on! You’re trying to say that this insance circus is serious where it’s not.

          • You really feel there was no difference in tone between Rising and the other MGS games? It’s not about specific moments you can list, but the general tone you take away from the series after beating them. At times Rising just feels like a comedy (and it does a good job at it). For example, this piece of dialogue at the end:

            Raiden: How the hell did you get elected?
            Armstrong: Well, I don’t write my own speeches.

            Compare the conversation between Raiden and Armstrong with the conversation between Raiden and Solidus in MGS2, for example.

    • Gatsu

      Omg that is so cool :O…..

    • Alex

      Damn that was incredible

  • Gatsu

    Thanks for this article Nyx <3, it was amazing :)! I also gotta read the entire essay :D.

  • InternecivusRaptusStrikesBack

    I got excited at seeing the 44 comments andr realised it was just two people having a pointless discussion . We really need concrete news don’t we?

    • At least they’re not your comments for once. 😛

      No but seriously, you’re more than welcome to start a better discussion. 🙂

      • InternecivusRaptusStrikesBack

        GOTTA GET BACK
        BACK TO THE PAST SAMURAI JACK

      • InternecivusRaptusStrikesBack
      • InternecivusRaptusStrikesBack

        Each time I try to do no one gives a flying fuck.
        What do you expect me to do?

        • Can you give some examples? Usually when someone posts something here, there are at least some responses.

          • InternecivusRaptusStrikesBack

            When I try to spark discussion on concept art,small details or even speak about snake and logan are inspirational , no one seems to give their opinion.It’s as IF only insulting gets attention or your reputation.And I really doubt my name change is behind this.Hell.I think it’s because someone did a smear campaign back in 2016 against me on sites like steam and lied about me behind my back.Sad.Just sad.

          • Looking at some of your older comments it seems you often have a very… crude way of talking. It may not be too inviting for some to discuss that way.

          • InternecivusRaptusStrikesBack
          • Full Options

            Most people remember what was said about you. Your inputs are sometimes very cool, but try not to force somebody to share your opinion by severely speaking to him even if you feel he is heavily mistaken.
            If so, people around will appreciate your efforts in convincing him or not, as far as you do it with fair-play mate. Everybody will remember such efforts way more than things that may have been said in your back. This apply whether you speak to new comers or S++ members.

        • Gatsu

          Well, it depends on the topic of discussions and if I’m visiting here that do I reply.

  • Gatsu
    • Congrats! And salutations. Btw, judging by your Venom you’ve been playing pretty evil. 😛

      • Gatsu

        Thanks Boss :D! Haha yeah, sometimes my playstyle remind of Rambo 4 lol. I still haven’t 100% the game XD, but I will someday lol ;D !

      • Gatsu

        The horn looks cool though :D.

    • Full Options

      xD Yep, as Nyx said… Bad Gatsu… Bad ! (..btw, mine is in the same state and I feel too lazy to do enough good actions to lower my horn size… xDxD)

      • Gatsu

        I’m also too lazy :3.

        • Full Options

          xD… Headshots ruuulezzzz…. xD

          • InternecivusRaptusStrikesBack

            *Flamethrower

          • Full Options

            Range ?? Nah, Brennan or RPG… After CQC of course…

    • InternecivusRaptusStrikesBack

      I see you’ve been naughty and playing with fire . Poor soviets.

      • Gatsu

        Gotta be naughty sometimes ;).

        • InternecivusRaptusStrikesBack

          I just shotgun the damn CFA and burn them.No mercy for traffickers and fake freedom fighters.Still immoral but they are just pixels.It does defeat the purpose of mgs tho

        • InternecivusRaptusStrikesBack

          Belated happy birthday mah dude.So 28 or 29 candles ?

          • Gatsu

            Thanks so much ^_^, 29 candles ;D.

    • Full Options

      And Happy Birthday Brotha… Just realized it ! All the Best !

      • Gatsu

        Awww thanks! <3

        • Full Options

          ;D <3 !!!!

    • Lex Radu

      Happy Birthday, Boss!

      • Gatsu

        Thanks again Radu ^_^.

    • Gatsu

      Oh damn, I forgot that need to delete the save data in order to start a totally fresh game :3… Also can’t see some cutscenes etc without doing so I think. I really wish TPP had a New Game option and the theater mode to watch cutscenes.

      • That, and a nice photo mode. Sucks that these things were never added when a lot of games did.

        • Gatsu

          Yeah :), TPP is still one of the best games ever to me even if don’t have these things.

          I just deleted the save because I want to experience it all over again :D. A photo mode is something I wish every AAA game would add. It’s really so much fun to take artistic shots ^_^.

          • Yeah and for the publisher it’s basically free advertising. People are still posting their HZD screens on social media.

    • MrVux007

      All i wanted to see is Ocelot,Big Boss,Miller,Quiet and MB staff party hard in that cutscene
      http://bestanimations.com/Holidays/Birthday/funnybithdaygifs/funny-leonardo-decaprio-dancing-happy-birthday-gif.gif

  • Gatsu

    Why didn’t I see this before xD ;D…

    • Full Options

      Wow… HC stuff… Holy sh.t that replay… Gore, huh ?…

      • Gatsu

        Ultra evil Biggu Bossu

        • Full Options

          Ne ?? “Horny” Biggu Bossu, des… xD

    • Lex Radu

      Well, that depends on the player, Venom is the only Snake form the series that has a choice, that doesn’t have a written destiny, and the only character we can write ourselves, cause we are Venom.

      My Venom wasn’t evil. just sayn’

      • Gatsu

        Mine isn’t completely evil either ;).

  • InternecivusRaptusStrikesBack
  • proceeder

    Logan, sooo riped off MGS 4’s Old Snake. All the while in the theater, I was thinking, I’ve already not only “watched” but “played” a better version of this story.

    • NegaScott128

      Old Man Logan came out the same year as MGS4, and though it’s technically possible that the writer, Mark Milar, stole the idea of “old busted protagonist” from MGS4 (which was announced way back in 2005), I kinda doubt it. If you’re going to blame anyone for “ripping off” Old Snake, blame him.

      • proceeder

        Yeah, well, I realize it is based on the comic, but it also deviates from it in that it is focused on Logan and a handful of other adult mutants.
        Maybe, “riped off” is an exaggeration. After all, a good idea’s a good idea, anyone may come up with it.

        But still, the reception Logan got amazes me with all that praise, while MGS 4 was released on 2008 and many critics were bashing it & almost all of those criticisms overlooked Snake’s character development.
        Come 9 yrs later, same people applaud Logan for that very reason! C’mon!

        • NegaScott128

          “Yeah, well, I realize it is based on the comic, but it also deviates from it in that it is focused on Logan and a handful of other adult mutants.”
          They had to. The plotline of Old Man Logan heavily involves Hulk and Hawkeye, neither of which can be used by 20th Century Fox because the rights are split up. A “proper” adaptation of Old Man Logan is nigh-impossible due to the rights issues.
          “But still, the reception Logan got amazes me with all that praise, while MGS 4 was released on 2008 and many critics were bashing it & almost all of those criticisms overlooked Snake’s character development.
          Come 9 yrs later, same people applaud Logan for that very reason! C’mon!”
          What are you talking about? First of all, pretty much all the reviews of MGS4 at the time of release were glowing. Even the fanbase was huge fans of it at the time. It was only later on that its reputation diminished. Second of all, are you saying that people who don’t like MGS4 thought Snake had no arc, but like Logan because Wolverine had no arc? Because neither of those are true.

          If anything, it shows that the basic concept of MGS4 – that of an older protagonist dealing with mortality – is still strong, but MGS4 was so bogged down with having to tie up all the loose ends of the series that the core emotional impact suffered. Since Logan doesn’t try to tie up any loose ends, nor does it even have to, it can focus on the themes of aging and mortality, and thus has a greater emotional impact.

          • proceeder

            I think you’re missing the point.
            Fictional series like X-Men or MGS tend to overlook the protagonists aging because it would be inconvenient to account for people’s old age difficulties and the younger audience won’t relate to it.
            MGS 4 did it B4 Logan. So, it was a bolder move.
            Also, there are still critics who bash MGS 4 as the worst in the series, not that I care…too much.

          • NegaScott128

            “Fictional series like X-Men or MGS tend to overlook the protagonists aging because it would be inconvenient to account for people’s old age difficulties and the younger audience won’t relate to it.
            MGS 4 did it B4 Logan. So, it was a bolder move.”
            I think there’s three things you need to keep in mind here:
            1. Most people have no idea what MGS even is. Heck, the people who made Logan probably have very little knowledge of MGS. To them, the concept of “old, dying protagonist” is fresh and new, and they aren’t comparing it to MGS4 because they’ve never even heard of it.
            2. Even if MGS was just as popular as X-Men, this is still only like the second thing to really explore that idea. Even if it’s not entirely new, it’s still very rare for such an idea to be explored in-depth. And I’d argue that Logan actually does a better job exploring it, though that’s mostly down to how cluttered MGS4’s story is.
            3. When you say “Logan took inspiration from MGS4,” you’re ignoring the context of the film’s actual source material. Logan was not born out of thin air – it’s a very loose adaptation of a well-regarded comic storyline that happens to have some similar themes to MGS4. What Mangold did with Logan was take what he was legally allowed to from Old Man Logan (post-apocalyptic world, old & dying protagonist, etc) and created a new story based around those themes. But those themes came from Old Man Logan, not Mangold, and certainly not from MGS4.

          • proceeder

            I disagree with that assessment about Logan doing a better job.
            Also, I was referring to the source material.
            Being recognized by a larger audience proves nothing, definitely not originality. So if people who like Logan don’t know about MGS, too bad, it’s their loss.

          • NegaScott128

            “Also, I was referring to the source material.”
            Your entire argument is that Logan ripped off MGS4 by having an older protagonist when the reality is that it was based on a comic that has nothing to do with MGS4. Your entire argument is based on ignoring the source material. You also claim that MGS4 was unfairly criticized for things Logan also did, as if the only reason people disliked MGS4 is due to it having an old guy as the protagonist. In actuality, most people thought that the idea was interesting, and handled well within the game. It’s the other storytelling choices that people criticize.
            “Being recognized by a larger audience proves nothing, definitely not originality.”
            I never said it did, either. Only that 99% of people who watched Logan were not comparing it to MGS4, or even Old Man Logan for that matter, and thus what seems old and tired to you feels fresh to them. It doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s actually fresh.

            I would still argue that the idea hasn’t been used that much outside of OML and MGS4, so it’s not like it’s some tired cliche.

          • proceeder

            I’m sorry if you thought I was trying to convince you or anyone, I’m not. I’m just expressing my opinion. So, there are no arguments here, just expressions.
            And I don’t mean to offend you, but, hearing people commend Logan on it’s originality is to me like hearing someone praise Led Zeppelin’s “Babe I’m gonna leave you” as “that music they heard on King Arthur’s movie trailer”.
            Again, just my opinion and not meant as an insult.

          • radun

            Logan did good for the most part, but in no way reaches the emotional highs of MGS4, not even close.

            It’s undeniable that MGS4 was very convoluted and even bloated at times (a thing which the game acknowledges and rides with) but the character interactions were amazing, leading to a truly poignant conclusion, managed in a stellar way.

          • NegaScott128

            “Logan did good for the most part, but in no way reaches the emotional highs of MGS4, not even close.”
            Maybe it never got as high as MGS4, but it was more consistently emotionally engaging. With MGS4, the emotional core was frequently bogged down by the constant exposition and explanation, which was a side effect of Kojima having to tie up all the loose ends of the series, including the ones he never intended to tie up in the first place. Logan gets to play on easy mode because it never has to do that.

      • Alex

        Hugh’s Logan is not exactly like Old Man Logan, who was much more capable than this dieing/limping version. Hugh’s design and depiction is more along the lines of Joel from Last of Us and Old Snake. If we’re talking Wolverine comics, its much closer to Wolverine: The End than Old Man Logan; the half claw in the beginning was even a reference to that comic. Old Man Logan was used more for its world and setting than anything.

    • Lex Radu

      I guess you don’t know the difference between homage, and rip off, huh!

    • Lex Radu

      Logan took inspiration from MGS4, 1 of the reasons is because Hugh Jackman is the most picked choice for Snake in the community, so Mangold did just that.

      Let’s not forget that X-Men 1 and 2 are written by David Hayter, and i’m pretty sure i’m not the only one who thinks that X-Men 1’s Wolvering was purposely written like Solid Snake, since David loves the Character.

    • Lex Radu

      I mean, come one, badass lone wolf, with badass voice, a dick soemtimes, but a source of inspiration for the younger generation, come on, that is Solid Snake in a Nutshell, no onder people think of Hugh when they think of live action Snake.

    • InternecivusRaptusStrikesBack

      Yeah right .
      And Niki Minaj’s Sillicone implant copied the Sillicone used in the renovation of my house. That’s how deep the analogy is

    • Alex

      The syringe part make me go wow, really

  • Any Dark Souls fans here? Check this out http://you-died.com/imagining-dark-souls-in-a-modern-day-tokyo/

    • Gatsu

      That’s awesome, thanks :).

  • NegaScott128

    Surprised no one’s brought this up yet. Basically, the official Mads Mikkelsen Twitter account tweeted about an article that speculated about Stefanie Joosten’s involvement in Death Stranding, and then that tweet was deleted, which is apparently very rare for the account.

    So, yeah, I’m now 99.99999999999999999999999999% confident Stefanie Joosten is going to be in Death Stranding.

    • Gatsu

      Woahhh I had missed this thanks :O… For a long time I was thinking that she isn’t in the game, but I’m glad about this :). I like Stefanie and she’s great. Imo it’s also better if Kojima add others than just well known hollywood actors.

      They can maybe shoot the scenes easier too with Stefanie and have more time for the game, while others well known actors might have a more tight schedule with movies/tv shows resulting perhaps less time to do motion caps, voice recording or other studio stuff.

      • InternecivusRaptusStrikesBack

        Great?
        She barely did stuff and when she did it was cringe worthy. But then I don’t think I should rely on people’s opinions so much.Especially yours 😉

        • Gatsu

          I don’t know why you hate her so much and yeah you don’t need to rely on my opinion.

          • InternecivusRaptusStrikesBack

            I don’t like awful actors.Pretty simple to me

        • radun

          what was cringe worthy?

          • InternecivusRaptusStrikesBack

            Everything . One of those talentless actor fanboys I see

      • NegaScott128

        Yeah, that’s something I’m curious about too. I know they captured the E3 trailer with Norman doing both facial and body motion capture, but in the Hideo Tube episode with Mads Mikkelsen, you can see that the apparently recorded facial and body motion capture separately. Presumably, this was due to Mads’ busy schedule, since this would have been when he was doing press tours for Doctor Strange and Rogue One. Call me crazy, I don’t think the demand for Mads will diminish after he was the villain in a big Marvel movie and he appeared in a Star Wars film. Plus, with how many different animations will be needed for the game, it’s very likely that the recording time will take longer than however long Norman Reedus’ break from Walking Dead lasts. But with Stefanie Joosten, there’s presumably more time to record animations and voice work, since she’s not exactly in high demand. Maybe she’ll have a significant role, alongside whoever they get to play Guillermo del Toro, and we might end up with another MGSV-style “silent protagonist.” I hope that doesn’t happen, though.

        • InternecivusRaptusStrikesBack

          Except his role was badly written in strange and you can tell he did his best to overcome the shitty script.But the visuals got me drunk at the theater so I can forgive the bad script

      • Tom Brearley-Smith

        To be honest, I don’t understand how people say she’s a bad actress. On the bright side, she’s by no means as bad as Megan Fox, IMO.

    • InternecivusRaptusStrikesBack

      The mads official page tweet every rumours concerning actors.Emma stone.Emily Blunt.
      I’m sorry but where do you see the potential in Joosten?
      And don’t reply like a triggered kid with gifs.I want to know your opinion once and for all

      • You don’t know her role much in DS. She can easily be in the game as a support character. But the thing is if you look even here: http://www.metalgearinformer.com/?page_id=8106&poll_page=2
        People actually liked her and voted for her (21%/450 +/- votes).
        Let’s wait and see what she can do in the game.

        • InternecivusRaptusStrikesBack

          I actually voted for her at the time.But just because of her looks.And I’m sure a lot must have voted for that reason

      • Lex Radu

        “And don’t reply like a triggered kid with gifs.”

        I think you’re confusing him wtth me, i’m the gif guy!

        “I want to know your opinion once and for all”
        https://68.media.tumblr.com/c5d01b7b521b6cd1d3dd4141cb6169d2/tumblr_op3qy9lLIl1uiklf6o2_540.gif

        • NegaScott128

          Oh, man, InterRaptive must be really upset that I tolerate Stefanie Joosten. I’ve got him blocked, so I didn’t see any of his replies.

          • Lex Radu

            And since that he won’t see yours either, so he has no idea what i’m talking about, but we do. That’s quite funny!

          • NegaScott128

            Well, I have him blocked. I don’t think he has me blocked. In fact, considering he is able to reply to me, I’m pretty sure he can still read my posts.

          • Lex Radu

            From what i know, if you are blocked by someone, you can’t see the things the person that blocked you is posting, that’s the whole point.

          • NegaScott128

            Q: If I block someone, will they be able to see my posts?
            A: Yes. It is only a one-way block, so that you can make someone invisible to you. They can still see your posts, and (technically) reply to you, but you won’t get notified or be able to see their comments, discussions, or replies.
            https://help.disqus.com/customer/portal/articles/2460515-user-blocking

            I blocked him, so I can’t read his posts, but he can still read mine.

          • Lex Radu

            I see now. Now i feel awkward as sh*t.

          • NegaScott128
          • Lex Radu
  • Lex Radu

    This is what the series is about, passing the torch.

    That being said, it would only make sense for the Metal Gear series to continue without Kojima, but from now on only in Movie form ,starting with Jordan Vogth-Roberts, since looks like the torch has been passed to him, given by the fact that when Geoff Keighley asked Hideo if there is any recent Movie that inspired him, Hideo after thinking a bit said “Kong was great!”

    I’m just gonna assume that Hideo trusts this guy, and so do i, and so should we all!

  • Lex Radu

    Also, looks like Metal Gear Movie Assistant Director will be Bryan Chojnowski, who previously worked on the visual effects of Movies like The Force Awakens, Tomorroland, Dawn of the Planet of The Apes, Star Treck in to Drakness etc.

    http://www.imdb.com/name/nm3215060/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cr5

    Ever since Kong, the more i hear about the MGS Movie, the more i get hope that this will be good.

  • deanbosnjak

    “The entertainment medium of video games has already exceeded the storytelling capabilities of movies. Games can give birth to as many stories as there are players. Games don’t seek to create endless stories – they can already deliver stories that don’t need to end. Games are also more addictive than movies. And let’s face it, endless addictive entertainment is just what the market – and players – ask for.” This is such bullshit. I don’t understand how any real metal gear fans can stand behind this. We want stories, real, well told, well presented stories. I don’t want fucking replayabilty and stories that i make trough gameplay. I get additcted on quality content, like Kojima got addicted on Mad Max for example. I would rather repeat mgs 4 5 times then play mgs V once. He needs to stop with this mobile, psp philosophy and he needs to focus on making a good story. Everything about this game stinks besides trailers and unfortunately, the same case was also with TPP.

    • What is a ‘real Metal Gear fan’?

      • deanbosnjak

        Anyone who loves games until V and can recognize objective faults of V. Anyone who prefers story over gameplay and everyone who is ready to criticize the man himself.

        • So if you did like V you’re not a real fan?

          • deanbosnjak

            No, if you liked V, but still recognize it’s faults, you can be a true fan. I would say even if you prefer gameplay over story you can be a true fan. But if you don’t recognize repetition, bad side ops, low story content, not hating on farming resources and so on. I then don’t want you in the mgs community.

          • And you decide who is allowed to be in the MGS community?

          • deanbosnjak

            Are you just gonna keep on strawmanning me? I’m stating my opinion on the matter and not deciding anything. I just hate this blind love for tpp and his new philosophy direction. Every artist needs critique and most of the fans aren’t giving Kojima any… If u prefer gameplay over story, online games and so on, you’ve got loads of options. If someone wants unique story presented in an impossibly awesome way, tough luck…

          • You should realize that not everyone agrees with you, and that doesn’t automatically make them wrong. Just because others like TPP doesn’t mean it’s ‘blind love’, it just means they have a different opinion than you.

          • deanbosnjak

            Like i said, if someone acknowledges it’s faults and still likes it, np. Do you admit it’s repetitive (almost every missions is extract or kill), do you admit that audiotapes are no way to tell a story, do you admit that characters are mostly bland (at least when comparing them to previous mgs) , do you admit that every single metal gear is far superior when it comes to the story and characters, do you admit that motherbase is soulless and with no content when you’re there, Do you admit that it lacks boss battles and that those that are in the game are far inferior to boss battles in previous games…? If not, I’ve got a problem with it and I can make an argument to prove you wrong.

          • Nah… doesn’t sound appealing. But thanks for the offer.

          • deanbosnjak

            Good talk.

          • Alex

            Objectives are repetitive, gameplay is not. However, opinions of repetition are reliant on the player’s creativity and such.

          • Alex

            Tapes are great, they just needed more cutscenes for story/gameplay balance. Look no further than Peace Walker for a great game balance with great tapes. Don’t take away TPP’s tapes, they didn’t take away from cutscene resources.

          • Alex

            Only Nyxus can decide who is allowed in the MGS community ^_^

    • Alex

      To me I read it as commentary on how the gaming medium has naturally lead to many games having emergent gameplay stories and not necessarily being intended. It sounds like he wants games to not just rely on that as an excuse/backbone for lazy narrative and such. I agree MGSV didn’t hit the right balance between the 2, but it still put far more effort into narrative than your average open world emergent game. I would also say that recently Horizon did as well, though Zelda relies almost exclusively on the emergent part (albeit done extremely well but still).

      I only read the paragraph so maybe I’m missing some context from the full article.

  • Alex

    “just like in the MGS series, the main character overcomes his fate by passing the baton to the next generation”

    He’s talking about V’s ending of course, him passing the series on to us.

  • Alex

    “The name “Snake” gave them the ability to overcome their individual limitations, pass along their mission, and allow the extended universe to continue. It was always so much more than just a codename.”

    In my own head-canon, it was obvious that Big Boss passed down the Snake name (and the bandanna) to Solid Snake. Eli being Liquid’s original code name also adds to Kojima’s statement and my train of thought.

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